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Old 03-01-2006, 10:59   #31
Ager
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According to Media Network Weblog China Radio International's Director-General Wang Gengnian says:

"Profound changes have taken place at CRI.
We have increased broadcasting times, readjusted the structure of the programs, enhanced
the efficiency of updates, and increased the amount and the depth of news analysis... Now broadcast in
29 different languages and four Chinese dialects, CRI's
total program length overseas has reached 387 hours."

And:

"We have further improved online broadcasting, providing text and
audio services in about 40 languages...In addition, foreigners living in China are also targeted with a
brand new information platform, a round-the-clock bilingual FM program. CRI is currently growing from the
previous single wireless broadcast to a complex media group combining broadcasting, television, internet
and print."

However CRI has not included DRM so far, and how to include when there are no receivers?

Anyway I could imagine that there is keen thinking going on not only in China on how to combine things, among them
the fantastic features of DRM (drm + internet, drm + wi-fi, drm + whatever)?

I agree with Connor that it is mostly information that is needed by remote listeners, i.e speech, maybe graphics,
and a few lines. Of course, stereo or high bitrate music is nice, and wonderful, but you can live without it now
and then, can you?
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Old 03-01-2006, 10:59   #32
tacitus-ms
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Quote:
Originally posted by Connor Walsh
.... I wonder is the consortium pushing DRM to non-members enough? It's a shame there aren't more progress reports on the official website.

The best example is the website of the consortium in German :

Quote:
DRM LW Sendungen
T-Systems hat zur IFA 2003 erstmalig DRM LW mit seinen Partnern DeutschlandRadio Deutschland Funk von dem T-Systems Standort Zehlendorf / Oranienburg auf LW 177 kHz erfolgreich abgestrahlt und führt weitere Tests durch um die LW DRM Sendungen zu optimieren.
Weitere Infos in Kürze.

This is still the same text - SINCE APRIL OF 2004! They HAVE NEVER MENTIONED that Deutschland Radio Kultur has been using this freuency for DRM since September 2005 (but since 01 of Dec. 2005 only at night). Very often a website of a scoolboy of the 8th class is updated more professionally than this one.

There are only two possibilities:
1.) The members of the DRM consortium and all employees who are involved do not believe any more that DRM has a future.
2.) The employees involved in the DRM theme perform as bad as that we´re observing. They should be released immediately. (T-Systems is involved, in fact, not just a cachet!) Here in Germany a lot of very good, highly qualified labor does not have a job and is waiting for a chance.

regards tacitus-ms

Last edited by tacitus-ms : 03-01-2006 at 15:23.
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Old 03-01-2006, 12:23   #33
Connor Walsh
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ager

However CRI has not included DRM so far, and how to include when there are no receivers?

Anyway I could imagine that there is keen thinking going on not only in China on how to combine things, among them
the fantastic features of DRM (drm + internet, drm + wi-fi, drm + whatever)?

I used to work in CRI, and I have to say, don't expect them to move too quickly on anything! They did some DRM tests about a year and a half ago, but there was no mention of it made in the station at all, so I don't know how much of an impact it made.

But a primary concern for media policy in China is to control, to prevent access to foreign news; DRM can help in this of course, so be careful what you wish for! No doubt they are considering how appropriate DRM is for jamming and for being jammed. And we still need them to make the radios!

(I understand that they could be made for export-only like Sangean and Tivoli sets are already though)

And I agree with Tacitus-ms too: imagine if there had been a government grant to develop DRM radios and put them into Daimler-Chryslers, BMW and VW-Audis! The accelerated (pardon the pun) digital take-up and analogue switch-off could perhaps have saved back some of the investment. It's the sort of commercial thinking that has helped push XM and Sirius in the States.

A few months ago I asked a marketing (I think it was marketing) bigwig at the BBC World Service about DRM. She was keen on the technology, but at the same time had to throw up her hands and say "the BBC can't make people manufacture radios".

To be fair to the consortium, they saw the need for governmental and commercial groups to work together. On the outside, we don't know what they have tried or what sort of setbacks they have met.

Having tried to help out in a community radio start-up, I know how time consuming it can be, to mix something like this with a regular job. Maybe DRM needs some equity investors involved ;-)

ps I forgot Opels, sorry anyone in Bochum ;-)

Last edited by Connor Walsh : 03-01-2006 at 12:25.
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Old 03-01-2006, 12:51   #34
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Connor, I remember you working for CRI. DRM has its military roots, and it could be be dangerous for all kind of closed political systems, in the East, as you stated, but there seems to
be a rising tendency for the same in the West.

Anyway the CRI tests in 2004 to Europe did not fail, as most of us may remember. If the neighbouring Kim would like to play us his heroic Kim marches on drm one day, why would we not lend him our ears for a minute or two, in the spirit of Marx brothers, if nothing else.

Anyway, you made an interesting point, Connor - politics and drm. It is not just technology. Politics presumably has been no small obstacle for the consortium.
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Old 03-01-2006, 18:32   #35
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[quote]Originally posted by Connor Walsh


Obviously Radio Luxembourg is just ticking over until they really can get on air with a full commercial service.

Well thats fair point Conner but it's hardly going to sell DRM is it? And if you were an advertising agency would you advertise on it? Joe Bloggs will not entertain it, yes it's testing, what for 8hours a day on TWO poor frequencies on shortwave which DRM mode or not is prone to fade/dropouts hardly cutting edge radio even for a test. DRM is not going to work for long distant broadcaster like RTL for many years, sorry, hats off to them for trying but look at the DRM results for most stations it's always hit & miss, you can't run a commercial radio station these days like that.

Paul
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Old 04-01-2006, 08:58   #36
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[quote]Originally posted by radiomann
Quote:
Well thats fair point Conner but it's hardly going to sell DRM is it? And if you were an advertising agency would you advertise on it? Joe Bloggs will not entertain it, yes it's testing, what for 8hours a day on TWO poor frequencies on shortwave which DRM mode or not is prone to fade/dropouts hardly cutting edge radio even for a test. DRM is not going to work for long distant broadcaster like RTL for many years, sorry, hats off to them for trying but look at the DRM results for most stations it's always hit & miss, you can't run a commercial radio station these days like that.

Paul


Yes, a good point well made. With broadcasters and enthusiasts using external aerials, there is unlikely to be an accurate idea of reception on domestic sets with the telescopic rod down flat! But RTL are as good a commercial operator as you are going to get, and I expect they will get around the technical obstacles and get a full service widely available. But I would be well annoyed with the manufacturers I had been supporting in getting the radios out before Christmas. All those new DAB radios out there, but none will pick up DRM "by stealth".

Gosh Ager scary to think you remember my terrible attempts at CRI! And I agree totally that our own governments here would be happy to keep media "line-of-sight" only. But at the same time, if DRM continues the current shortwave trend of most loud stations being what you could broadly call "propaganda", then very few people are going to buy a set especially for DRM.

If someone could grab a few MEPs obsessed with "TV without Borders" and show them DRM maybe we would get somewhere a bit faster Well, maybe…!
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Old 04-01-2006, 16:58   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by radiomann

DRM+ sounds more interesting but again only for local stations and high powered nation stations as DRM Fan mentioned but no chance of that at present in the UK with lack of frequencies though this could be rectified but Ofcom don't seem to want to budge as usual, and this again as DRM Fan states could take years

There are no UK AM frequencies available for high power stations apart from the long wave one originally allocated for Scotland. To test there you would need someone to
make an investment decision and find a suitable site, it's also shared with Poland which is a problem and one of the main reasons it has remained unused.

The BBC local AM frequencies are used because of lack of FM coverage for their local radio stations and can only be released with their agreement.

Ofcom is a regulator, any push for DRM in the UK has to come from the BBC and/or the commercial radio industry and they have invested in DAB.

Ofcom have asked whether the next AM licences should be allocated to DRM and have granted all the test licences requested. They can't remove an AM licence from an operator and instruct it to transmit in DRM. Whilst there are no receivers it is commercial suicide anyway, they are not making money out of DAB.

Unlike the UK there are plenty of unused AM frequencies on the Continent, look at Holland for example. Those are the countries the DRM consortium should be looking to expand into. Radio Luxembourg has noticed all this unused AM space and put in requests to put their own transmitters on them and use DRM. This might spur the countries who are not using them to put something on.
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Old 04-01-2006, 20:01   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by MikeB


There are no UK AM frequencies available for high power stations apart from the long wave one originally allocated for Scotland. To test there you would need someone to
make an investment decision and find a suitable site, it's also shared with Poland which is a problem and one of the main reasons it has remained unused.

The BBC local AM frequencies are used because of lack of FM coverage for their local radio stations and can only be released with their agreement.


But surely now as I said FM reception must be just about perfect anywhere for the local BBC stations ? I'm sure barely anyone is still listening on AM. There are net streams now for all BBC local sts plus DAB. Now is the time to look closely at releasing AM given all the other outlets don't you agree ? Who do you know who listens to their local BBC st on AM ? If they do I'm sure it is by habit not because they have to..
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Old 06-01-2006, 17:19   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by G8JQW

yes that's possible, but Sangean denied that the unit that Roberts Radio was evaluating was manufactured by them

73 ... Roger
I’ve found out that the RD2 is indeed manufactured by Sangean but the RD20 is manufactured by Otaki. Morphy Richards designed DRM radio is manufactured by Korean company Cenix. All of these are using the RadioScape module. It seems there is no problem getting the units manufactured.

This information contained in a TI PowerPoint document for IFA 2005 http://www.deutsches-drm-forum.de/TI...ntation_hu.pdf

73s, Roger
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Old 06-01-2006, 18:32   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by G8JQW
I’ve found out that the RD2 is indeed manufactured by Sangean but the RD20 is manufactured by Otaki. Morphy Richards designed DRM radio is manufactured by Korean company Cenix. All of these are using the RadioScape module.

At IFA, the RD2 seemed to be the receiver on which the work was concentrated, it also seemed to be the most widely advanced prototype, perhaps apart from the Visteon car radio that was also shown. The RD20 was there as well but this seemed to be a very early version in which only the DAB module had been replaced by the RS500. Menu items and function push buttons did not match completely.

Demonstrations at the DRM consortium's booth were mainly given using the RD2 which was shown with both Sangean and Roberts labels. Apart from the fact that - as I was told - the receiver's (or the module's) firmware had had only been updated the night before IFA by Radioscape (not by Sangean or Roberts), the receivers seemed to be fully functional and push buttons also matched the menus displayed.

BTW: It is interesting to see, that there are two second source manufacturers for Radioscape modules in Asia, see this article.

Roland
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Old 08-01-2006, 12:26   #41
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DRM will be exhibiting at Le Radio in Paris February 12th-15th
http://www.le-radio.com/

If you click on press and download the press pack, which has information in both French and English, you will see that there will be a showroom to "enable visitors to discover this first multistandard "Digital Radio" receiver."

The programme on the 14th is devoted to radio broadcast convergence including digital radio.
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Old 17-01-2006, 12:50   #42
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Future of Radio - it ain't DRM for sure
Monday January 9th 2006
Jonathan Marks, former head of Radio Netherlands English service:
http://criticaldistance.blogspot.com/
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Old 17-01-2006, 13:31   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by MikeB
Future of Radio - it ain't DRM for sure
Monday January 9th 2006
Jonathan Marks, former head of Radio Netherlands English service:
http://criticaldistance.blogspot.com/

Yes he's right of course there's nothing to listen to. What a shame Media Network is'nt still runing, that would help shake things up a bit
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Old 17-01-2006, 20:07   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by DRM-Fan


Yes he's right of course there's nothing to listen to. What a shame Media Network is'nt still runing, that would help shake things up a bit

This is what I have been saying for the past few months, DRM will not work for a long time, i very rarley use mine nowadays, nothing to listen too and to many dropouts IF you find something to listen too?

Paul
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Old 17-01-2006, 22:33   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by radiomann
This is what I have been saying for the past few months, DRM will not work for a long time, I very rarley use mine nowadays, nothing to listen to and too many dropouts IF you find something to listen to?

No matter what negative assertions radiomann or DRM-Fan are regularly venting on this thread, I myself do listen to DRM daily and I can assure anybody that I am enjoying it quite a lot.
Perhaps it's just the wrong prorammes you can receive at your place.

Roland
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