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Old 17-01-2006, 23:16   #46
DRM-Fan
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Quote:
Originally posted by dk8cb


No matter what negative assertions radiomann or DRM-Fan are regularly venting on this thread, I myself do listen to DRM daily and I can assure anybody that I am enjoying it quite a lot.
Perhaps it's just the wrong prorammes you can receive at your place.

Roland

I'm not being negative Roland about the mode, I think it's fastastic though the hi-fi as I've said before, but about the lack of interest broadcasters (and ofcom) seem to be showing about it certainly in the UK. The spec has been finalised radios are out soon - if you can believe radioscape / roberts next month even - but where are the exciting new MW and SW tests ?!!

To say there are no MW freqs available I just don't buy. If ofcom and broadcasters in the UK were THAT keen I'm sure a handful of tests would be 'out there' right now. To use 26 mhz IMO is just playing about with tests...

Anyway I know it's all getting a bit boring but I have a great interest in all modes of radio and DRM looked to be very promising, but I guess with it being so easy now to click here and there to get any radio stations you desire in great quality via the net DRM will go nowhere not for now anyway. It took 10 years for DAB to just about get noticed in the UK and even now it's critisised to death. I think it's great not perfect but with 30 or so stations receivable just about anywhere in the UK it's proven to be fairly popular at last. Comapre this stuation with DRM, how many stations for the UK ? Radio Luxenburg and BBC WS, I make that 2 - wow!

So see what happens this year...not much I fear
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Old 18-01-2006, 16:03   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by dk8cb


No matter what negative assertions radiomann or DRM-Fan are regularly venting on this thread, I myself do listen to DRM daily and I can assure anybody that I am enjoying it quite a lot.
Perhaps it's just the wrong prorammes you can receive at your place.

Roland


It may sound negative Roland but it's just honesty, DRM in principle is an excellant idea and sounds very good, the problem I have is the programming and stability on Short Wave, I only like music stations to be honest and apart from RTL there isn't anything else for me, though I have had a lot of fun with DRM, I just say what I think, I could lie and say it works 100% 24/7? Here in the UK we are stuck with DAB, but it works for me as I listen to Capital Gold 1548AM so I get it 24/7 in Stereo, I, like DRM Fan would love to have some MW & LW broadcasts but this silly country (UK) wants to sit on the fence again, so it's not being negative against what DRM could acheive it's all the other factors, and I know a lot of people in the radio industry (sorry no names) and they've said for the forseeable future they will just sit and wait to see what happens if anything with DRM, so we just go round in circles.

After saying all that, Yes bring DRM on.

Paul
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Old 18-01-2006, 19:57   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by DRM-Fan
I'm not being negative Roland about the mode, I think it's fastastic though the hi-fi as I've said before, but about the lack of interest broadcasters (and ofcom) seem to be showing about it certainly in the UK.

On what basis are you making that assertion given that Ofcom is to ask whether AM licences should be re-advertised as DRM ones and the participation in shortwave DRM tests on 9, 11 and 26 Mhz by UK commercial radio companies and the three major Uk transmitter companies.

Quote:
Originally posted by DRM-Fan
The spec has been finalised radios are out soon - if you can believe radioscape / roberts next month even - but where are the exciting new MW and SW tests ?!!

To say there are no MW freqs available I just don't buy. If ofcom and broadcasters in the UK were THAT keen I'm sure a handful of tests would be 'out there' right now. To use 26 mhz IMO is just playing about with tests...

The lack of medium wave UK frequencies not already licenced has been mentioned and analysed on other forums as well as by Ofcom itself.
Which frequency or frequencies could be used for UK DRM tests apart from 225?

Quote:
Originally posted by DRM-Fan Comapre this stuation with DRM, how many stations for the UK ? Radio Luxenburg and BBC WS, I make that 2 - wow!
I

The BBC WS DRM service is not targeting the UK as far as I am aware and Radio Luxembourg's tests have not been wholly successful.
Are you now talking about shortwave DRM? Given that there were tests towards the UK from Moosbrun by UK commercial companies and religious broadcasters those could resume. WRN is also interested in DRM so they might be interested in putting out the WRN English service on shortwave via DRM. We need to get receivers on the market in quantity to make that feasible. Given the amount of stations on FM, DAB and digital satellite in the UK there's only a limited amount of potential for DRM here at the moment, more if the AM licencees agree to readvertise the frequencies for DRM use and Ofcom are going to pose the question.

DRM seems to making more progress in the UK than in many other countries in Europe it seems to me.
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Old 18-01-2006, 20:08   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by radiomann

Here in the UK we are stuck with DAB, but it works for me as I listen to Capital Gold 1548AM so I get it 24/7 in Stereo, I, like DRM Fan would love to have some MW & LW broadcasts but this silly country (UK) wants to sit on the fence again, so it's not being negative against what DRM could acheive it's all the other factors, and I know a lot of people in the radio industry (sorry no names) and they've said for the forseeable future they will just sit and wait to see what happens if anything with DRM, so we just go round in circles.

The fact the UK has invested in DAB does hold back DRM to some degree, particularly as there has not yet been sufficient return on the investment, but as I have just said there is awareness of it from the broadcasters and regulator.
My question would be why is a country like Holland, which has plenty of unused AM frequencies and where digital radio has not got off the ground, seemingly just going with DAB and not mentioning DRM. RTE is testing DAB. Slovenia is putting in DAB. I thought the idea now was multistandard radios with countries launching DAB/DRM platforms?
If that happened it would give more momentum to the UK using it.
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Old 18-01-2006, 20:40   #50
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Originally posted by MikeB


The fact the UK has invested in DAB does hold back DRM to some degree, particularly as there has not yet been sufficient return on the investment, but as I have just said there is awareness of it from the broadcasters and regulator.
My question would be why is a country like Holland, which has plenty of unused AM frequencies and where digital radio has not got off the ground, seemingly just going with DAB and not mentioning DRM. RTE is testing DAB. Slovenia is putting in DAB. I thought the idea now was multistandard radios with countries launching DAB/DRM platforms?
If that happened it would give more momentum to the UK using it.

I don't know why Holland doesn't seem interested in DRM, but when Holland makes any changes they almost do it overnight, as for DAB/DRM radios when they come out will be great but they have to have the programming and 100% audio and though tests have been made usually only for a few hours per day that will never give an overall picture of what DRM does, there is no real tests for the UK at night apart from the London tests which I can't really get, my real problem Mike is there isn't anything worth listening to and Short Wave is not stable enough, I know I keep saying that but no-one seems to understand that part of what I'm saying, it may be ok for some broadcasters like DW who have a whole range of frequencies they can use at all times of the day but broadcasters like RTL who rely on commercials I don't see it working on SW, so how do they get around it?

I am a simple radio listener, not techy in anyway so maybe I'm wrong in what I say, but we will wait and see.
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Old 18-01-2006, 20:49   #51
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Originally posted by MikeB


On what basis are you making that assertion given that Ofcom is to ask whether AM licences should be re-advertised as DRM ones and the participation in shortwave DRM tests on 9, 11 and 26 Mhz by UK commercial radio companies and the three major Uk transmitter companies.

Which AM licences ? You can imagine how long this will take!

The lack of medium wave UK frequencies not already licenced has been mentioned and analysed on other forums as well as by Ofcom itself.
Which frequency or frequencies could be used for UK DRM tests apart from 225?

As I said before I think a lot of the freqs used by BBC regional radio could be used

The BBC WS DRM service is not targeting the UK as far as I am aware and Radio Luxembourg's tests have not been wholly successful.
Are you now talking about shortwave DRM? Given that there were tests towards the UK from Moosbrun by UK commercial companies and religious broadcasters those could resume. WRN is also interested in DRM so they might be interested in putting out the WRN English service on shortwave via DRM. We need to get receivers on the market in quantity to make that feasible. Given the amount of stations on FM, DAB and digital satellite in the UK there's only a limited amount of potential for DRM here at the moment, more if the AM licencees agree to readvertise the frequencies for DRM use and Ofcom are going to pose the question.

DRM seems to making more progress in the UK than in many other countries in Europe it seems to me.

I'm meaning MW. If BBC WS is for Europe then if you can count Luxy just the 1 station then. Just a shame no one in the radio business is simply interested in the DRM technology without first thinking how much can we make out of this financially. No anoraks in radio these days in other words !
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Old 18-01-2006, 20:54   #52
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Originally posted by DRM-Fan


I'm meaning MW. If BBC WS is for Europe then if you can count Luxy just the 1 station then. Just a shame no one in the radio business is simply interested in the DRM technology without first thinking how much can we make out of this financially. No anoraks in radio these days in other words !

Well I read somewhere that even RTL are not too happy with the way their DRM services are performing, and sadly there not.
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Old 20-01-2006, 16:38   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by dk8cb


No matter what negative assertions radiomann or DRM-Fan are regularly venting on this thread, I myself do listen to DRM daily and I can assure anybody that I am enjoying it quite a lot.
Perhaps it's just the wrong prorammes you can receive at your place.

Roland

Can I ask do you enjoy digital tv if it goes blocky in the middle of something you want to watch? I don't and I don't like listening to digital radio with dropouts, DRM does that maybe you should read your own reception reports before calling people negative.

Paul
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Old 20-01-2006, 18:07   #54
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Originally posted by radiomann
I don't and I don't like listening to digital radio with dropouts, DRM does that maybe you should read your own reception reports before calling people negative.

Perhaps with the exception of BBC WS on 1296 kHz, where I am outside of the target area, I regularly get well over 99% audio, see my reports regarding reception on 9470 kHz and 1530 kHz. In fact, I am at a point, where the percentage of decoded audio is often not limited by reception deficiencies but by technical problems at the TX sites or at the source of the programmes (still after so many years of testing!). But these may finally be overcome and instead of just complaining, I keep trying to help broadcasters find the causes, not without success.
And even with 97% of audio, listening is quite often still enjoyable. Compare to eg SW AM or even sometimes FM in the car, where you will also have moments with unintelligibility due to selective fading (unless in case of SW, you have a synchronous detector or you are listening in SSB) or multipath reception.
Shortwave will always have it's physical limitations.

I know, it's not easy, but broadcasters should also take the organisational measures to ensure a clean signal. Yes, I am talking about choosing the right TX site, the right frequency at the right time of the day and even about trying to take administrative measures through their regulator to do something about other on-channel stations or those on neighbouring channels transmitting broadband signals and thus defying all internationally agreed standards.

Also, if you look at daytime reception of mediumwave DRM signals in the target areas, there is not much to complain about. I admit, nighttime reception is still an issue but it also seems to be related to the kind of transmitting antenna used and the last word is not yet spoken.

Roland
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Old 20-01-2006, 18:34   #55
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Originally posted by dk8cb


Perhaps with the exception of BBC WS on 1296 kHz, I regularly get well over 99% audio, see my reports regarding reception on 9470 kHz and 1530 kHz. In fact, I am at a point, where the percentage of decoded audio is often not limited by reception deficiencies but by technical problems at the TX sites or at the source of the programmes (still after so many years of testing!). But these may finally be overcome and instead of just complaining, I keep trying to help broadcasters find the causes, not without success.
And even with 97% of audio, listening is quite often still enjoyable. Compare to eg SW AM or even sometimes FM in the car, where you will also have moments with unintelligibility due to selective fading (unless in case of SW, you have a synchronous detector or you are listening in SSB) or multipath reception.
Shortwave will always have it's physical limitations.

I know, it's not easy, but broadcasters should also take the organisational measures to ensure a clean signal. Yes, I am talking about choosing the right TX site, the right frequency at the right time of the day and even about trying to take administrative measures through their regulator to do something about other on-channel stations or those on neighbouring channels transmitting broadband signals and thus defying all internationally agreed standards.

Also, if you look at daytime reception of mediumwave DRM signals in the target areas, there is not much to complain about. I admit, nighttime reception is still an issue but it also seems to be related to the kind of transmitting antenna used and the last word is not yet spoken.

Roland

Well here is just one, I think your missing my point.

Jan. 1
It didn't take long for the propagation conditions to fade out after I had tuned in.

Roland

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Old 20-01-2006, 18:40   #56
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Originally posted by radiomann
Well here is just one, I think your missing my point.

Jan. 1
It didn't take long for the propagation conditions to fade out after I had tuned in.

Didn't I write that shortwave will always have it's physical limitations? Time will come, when a receiver will automatically switch to a better frequency in a case like the one cited above.

I have been a listener to the BBC WS on AM for many, many years since the age of about 14 and I have never had such a good audio quality and such enjoyable reception as I do now, so for me, DRM is something which made me listen more than ever before and a technological improvement which I won't miss. I also believe, that there will be others who do share my assertion.

Roland
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Old 20-01-2006, 18:47   #57
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Originally posted by dk8cb


Didn't I write that shortwave will always have it's physical limitations?

I have been a listener to the BBC WS on AM for many, many years since the age of about 14 and I have never had such a good audio quality and such enjoyable reception as I do now, so for me, DRM is something which made me listen more than ever before and a technological improvement which I won't miss.

Roland

Roland I have never said the sound quality is poor, It's great, what I have always said is SW AM or DRM is unstable so why do broadcasters like RTL who rely on commercials use it, that is my debate, 6095, 5990 after sunset useless, 1440 it's either good or bad, 7145 southern half of the UK poor, 7295 better but average audio 60%.
DRM will work for DW and other International broadcaster as they mainly broadcast a few hours on differant frequencies which works.

Paul
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Old 20-01-2006, 18:52   #58
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Also how are broadcasters going to know if there are problems if people like me don't say so? That is not been negative that is helping them hopefully.

Paul
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Old 20-01-2006, 20:50   #59
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So what happened to the list I did that never performed 99% or more recently from Roland?

Paul
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Old 21-01-2006, 20:07   #60
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Originally posted by radiomann
So what happened to the list I did that never performed 99% or more recently from Roland?

Paul
It is exactly there, where you chose to post it for whatever reason.
I already wondered what your post here was about until I got a mail from Simone (thanks!), in which she told me that you had posted it in the 5875 kHz thread.

I didn't say that I always get over 99%, I said "regularly". If you look at my 9470 kHz reports, you will see that reception is mostly in that range with the exception of days with technical problems in the transmitted signal. Yes, some improvement is still needed in this regard but I have already said that.
And regarding interference from CRI's wideband transmission, which is actually carried out from Cerrik, Albania, it is my opinion that something should be done via the HFCC organisation since CRI has registered this transmission there. I guess all members of HFCC should adhere to international standards which include restricting HF broadcasts to the standard +/-5 kHz bandwidth.

But this is no fault of the DRM system, it only demonstrates that some administrative tasks have to be carried out as well, as I have also written in a post above. But even with interference from CRI, my results on 9470 kHz are mostly over 99% decoded audio.

And currently, I am enjoying very good reception of BBC WS on 1296 kHz, even outside of the target area.

Roland
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