DRM from CBC (9800 kHz from Sackville)

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

A quite good result from Canada tonight. The signal reached up to 40dBuV.

[Brendan1]

Most of the day was not good, but it was picking up right at the end.

[Brendan1]

I just love the roller coaster of propagation! Mornings good, mornings bad, afternoons good, afternoons bad, but never both good... :rolleyes:

[KB0VE]

As Ed used to say, "Really good shoew". Two hours of solid copy:)

[Brendan1]

Nowhere near the report from KB0VE unfortunately. I'll blame the solar storm today.

[Brendan1]

Very poor results again.

[Alan Johnson]

I got Winradio and Winradio's DRM demodulator going on my new computer today. Not bad for Radio Sweden. Winradio's DRM doesn't log recovered audio for some reason - I keep meaning to Email them about that. I'm getting lower SNR's than what I remember from the other computer - they do have different onboard audio chips (Realtek 888 in the new computer vs. an 889 in the other machine).

[Brendan1]

Well, this broadcast is shot as far as I'm concerned. Another bad, bad day.

[Brendan1]

Still not being received very well out here.

[Brendan1]

Sorry I'm late. Somewhat better yesterday.

[Brendan1]

Pretty much a loss, unless you ignore most of the mid-day hours.

[Brendan1]

Today's log is so different from yesterday's, I can't believe it. Absolutely the best daytime log for CBC in maybe 6 months.

[Brendan1]

From feast to famine, groan. :(

[Alan Johnson]

Things were much better here - almost like old times. :)

[Brendan1]

Today was pretty bad... :(

[Alan Johnson]

Not good here, either. I thought at first it was the A-index of 19, but given how well TDP did, I wonder if something was not adjusted properly at the transmitter.

[Brendan1]

The afternoon's log: not too good.

[Brendan1]

Today's logs: not that good, not the worst I've ever done either. Slightly short as I'm doing some computer work, and don't want to screw things up by trying to do that and log simultaneously: I've tried it and it doesn't work... :rolleyes:

[Brendan1]

A short log again, still not that great.

[Alan Johnson]

New receiver, most of the major blips are from me playing with the controls. Overall pretty good reception today.

[Brendan1]

Some obvious signal improvement today, looks like the solar gods are smiling once again. {Now that I've jinxed it, this will be the best log for several weeks}

[Brendan1]

For the hours I was decoding CBC, it was pretty good! The steadily lengthening days appear to be playing a good role in this returning quality.

[Alan Johnson]

An abbreviated session, but not too bad.

[Alan Johnson]

I only had time to monitor Sweden today - I'm not sure it was worth the effort.

[Brendan1]

I hate this day-to-day variation in propagation. :mad:

[Brendan1]

Another not very good day.

[Alan Johnson]

I only got about the last 30 minutes but good reception here.

[Brendan1]

The daytime hours have simply become a wasteland for 31 meters - for me at least. CBC only seems to get good when the grayline arrives (evening).

[Digger]

45 minutes with around 75% CDA at the back of the antenna. The signal weakened towards the end of the log.

[Brendan1]

A surprise today: somewhat better conditions. Rather variable, but I'll take it.

[KB0VE]

Good result /w Vatican Radio from Sackville, NB CA to Hawk Point, MO USA:)

[KB0VE]

More good results from Sackville, NB CA to Hawk Point, MO USA:)

[Brendan1]

Yesterday's results: very short, but not that bad.

[KB0VE]

More good results from Sackville, NB CA to Hawk Point, MO USA:)

[KB0VE]

Good results over two periods of unattended logging from Sackville, NB CA to Hawk Point, MO USA:)

[Brendan1]

Short but very sweet!

[FritzWue]

Not so good, half of the signal was missing because of an AM station 5 kHz up.

[Brendan1]

The afternoon is definitely staying pretty good. Nice to have it this way after so many bad days.

[Brendan1]

Very disappointing day.

[Brendan1]

Bad solar indices today, so the log is also bad.

[Alan Johnson]

Very erratic today, probably secondary to solar terrestial conditions. Log is in two parts, due to switching computers.

[Brendan1]

I got diddly out here: just look at the log.

[Brendan1]

Marginally better than yesterday, but not by much.

[Alan Johnson]

Rough start today, but Sweden did OK. Log is in two parts due to Dream crash.

[Brendan1]

Most of today's 9800 broadcast, much better right at the end naturally. :o

[Brendan1]

Much the same as yesterday, pretty disrupted until the very last hour.

[FritzWue]

Probably I was too late, too much interference after 17:30 UTC:

[Brendan1]

Improvement is showing for both days. I just hope it keeps up. :rolleyes:

[Brendan1]

The 7th was phenomenal, but the 8th was rather poor.

[Brendan1]

Not a great log, but not the worst either. :o

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

Not bad from Canada.

[Brendan1]

Not all that good from the US! :(

[Brendan1]

Pretty much an 'off' day for CBC. They were also running TDP's SDC info and 20.96kbps speed all day, no matter who was supposed to be on air. It started out as CBC at 1505Z, but by 1730Z was somehow reset to TDP. Very strange. :confused:

[Brendan1]

Only one brief period of any decoding yesterday, not good! :mad:

[Brendan1]

Quite erratic still, and only the later hours are showing any real signal strength.

[Brendan1]

Terrible day, absolutely lousy log! Started off at 20.88kbps, much higher than normal.

[Alan Johnson]

Short, but not bad.

[HC7AW]

Well, I don't usually get anything at all on this frequency, so I guess this is better than nothing. No audio yet though.

Doug

[Brendan1]

The morning was pretty much a dead loss, but the afternoon was noticeably better.

[Alan Johnson]

Log is in two parts due to operator error. Pretty good, although I'm not sure what the rhythmic disturbance in the second log was.

[Brendan1]

Only the last hour was really any good. Not very good daytime propagation for 31 meters for me.

[Brendan1]

About the same as the previous day: only the last couple of hours or so were any good.

[Brendan1]

Still not much signal for most of the day.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

RCI reached my area for a while with a good signal then disappeared in the noise.

[Alan Johnson]

Short session, but good results.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

RCI reached again my area.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

Again, a result from Sackville.

[Brendan1]

My first log in a few days - I've been: 1) testing a new loop antenna, 2) having said antennas' coax break in windstorm, 3) repairing said coax, and 4) resuming testing after installing a strengthened mounting system.

Ergo, a short log from yesterday. Great results towards the end of the broadcast...

[FritzWue]

This transmission is not directed to europe, so the reception result here is just a matter of interference. The signal is always strong enough.

[Brendan1]

Not so good here yesterday. :(

[Brendan1]

Bad solar propagation is still playing havoc with reception here.

[Brendan1]

Still suffering out here. :eek:

[Alan Johnson]

Short log today, but good results. Perhaps due to less disturbed propagation?

[Brendan1]

Some improvement up here, but not as good as Alan's log.

[Alan Johnson]

It appears that there was some schedule change confusion today:

1945 - 2030 UTC No audio, ID label showed RCI French

2030 UTC RNW, ID label showed RCI French

2100 - 2200 UTC RCI, ID label showed Vatican

2200 UTC no signal

2230 UTC Sweden, ID label showed RCI English

2300- 2400 UTC CRI, ID label showed RCI English, then showed
Sweden at the end of the broadcast

Ignore the dips - I changed some parameters in the Virtual Audio Cable program, which is required for using Dream with the Perseus, which boosted my SNR and got rid of the image shown in the PSD evaluation window, but now Dream "loses sync".

[Brendan1]

I was not nearly so fanatic as to note when and what Sackville was showing but I did see it was almost always wrong... :rolleyes:

Not a bad day, though not a great one either from my view.

[Alan Johnson]

Good signal levels today, but decoding dropouts probably due to incorrect settings in the VAC program.

[HC7AW]

Hi all,

I actually got some activity today....

Doug

[Brendan1]

I'm back! Had a flu bug for a few days. I have the antenna higher now, and my catches are better, so compare the before and after logs.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

RCI reached again my area.

[Brendan1]

The geomagnetic conditions haven't helped my reception at all. :(

[Brendan1]

The poor conditions continued today.

[Brendan1]

Sorry, no log for the 7th: propagation here was so bad I really had nothing to log.

[KB7GF]

Hi Everyone,

Conditions are still pretty rough here in the Pacific Northwest.

73,

Mark

[Brendan1]

I'll agree with Mark, still pretty disrupted out here. :(

[Brendan1]

An unfortunately mediocre day.

[KB7GF]

Hi Everyone,

A little better conditions here in E. Washington.

73,

Mark

[KB7GF]

Hi Everyone,

Pretty solid after 20:00 UTC.

73,

Mark

[Brendan1]

Not as good as Mark's log, but showing signs of improvement nevertheless, starting at roughly the same time as his log.

[Alan Johnson]

Very good today, most of the dips are from problems with my receiver/software. There are two logs because I got confused about the schedule :o

[Brendan1]

Yesterday showed some continued slight improvement.

Alan et al, Radio China International is on 9800 at 2300UTC following Radio Sweden at 2230. This broadcast is not on the published schedules, so it shouldn't be forgotten.

[Brendan1]

A bit of a short log today, the PC was completely freezing up, so I had to verify it would simply run as-is before resuming logging. Seems to work okay now...:confused:

A fairly so-so afternoon here.

[KB7GF]

Hi Everyone,

A mixed bag for both days. Today was an improvement (over yesterday) during the morning, but the afternoon results were the opposite.

73,

Mark

[Brendan1]

Much the same as Mark's reception: extremely variable conditions.

[Brendan1]

The lousy conditions continue.

[Brendan1]

My hard drive died completely on Thursday the 17th, taking my radio logging computer with it and all my DRM programs. :mad:

Finally restored most everything and got back to logging today. Quite marginal on CBC for most of the day, but the last couple of hours were good. :)

[Alan Johnson]

I did a little better today. I think most of the irregularity in the first part was propagation related and in the second, problems with Perseus and Dream.

[Brendan1]

Still a little sporadic on the reception here, but at least it's not getting worse.

[Brendan1]

Some improvement yesterday: slow but steady here.

[Brendan1]

Yesterday was still better than the day before, but today is not looking so good so far. :(

[Brendan1]

Yesterday seemed to suffer from two things: no signal for a good part of the day, and bad geomagnetic conditions. Thus, a very poor log.

[Brendan1]

Yesterday seemed to suffer from two things: no signal for a good part of the day as Sackville appears to have been off the air, and bad geomagnetic conditions. Thus, a very poor log.

[Brendan1]

Whooops! Didn't mean to do double post.

[Brendan1]

A little better at the end yesterday.

[Alan Johnson]

Very good yesterday. Log is in two parts, as I've begun to restart Perseus/Dream between transmission segments to reduce dropouts.

[Alan Johnson]

Short log today but pretty good.

[Brendan1]

Somewhat better yesterday, although nowhere near "great."

[Alan Johnson]

Short but sweet log today.

[Brendan1]

Interesting how the propagation seems to follow a regular cycle during the day here: in, then out.

[Brendan1]

Two days worth of logs - been a little busy. Neither day is very good.

[Brendan1]

Very interesting wave form to the propagation yesterday, even without the off-air periods.

[FritzWue]

Although the target is not europe signal was not bad:

[Brendan1]

Two parts, had to shut Dream off for a while to work out some computer issues. You know things aren't good when this signal makes it over the Atlantic better than you can get it off-beam on the same continent... :(

[Alan Johnson]

Very rocky today.

[Brendan1]

I'll agree, it wasn't a very good day here either.

[Alan Johnson]

Fair today - hard to tell which dropouts were due to propagation vs. problems with Perseus/VAC.

[Brendan1]

Not-so-fair today here.

[Alan Johnson]

Lots of dips today - I was playing with a new power supply for the Perseus.

Did anyone else notice what sounded like music at low level in the background during CRI's transmission? I wonder if it was crosstalk?

[Brendan1]

I wasn't listening yesterday afternoon, but it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't crosstalk at Sackville. I've heard it before...

[Brendan1]

Most of the day is still spent listening for nothing: conditions simply put me outside of the landing of any hops until later here.

[Brendan1]

Here they are: some improvement yesterday afternoon, most signal in several weeks.

[Brendan1]

Better conditions for most of the day: the signal is at least making it out here now. Extremely cyclic propagation.

[Brendan1]

The 31 meter band sure takes a long time to get going right now.

[Alan Johnson]

Pretty rocky today, but I suspect the dips in the final hour and a half were due to local problems.

[KB7GF]

Hi Everyone,

A late log for me today (only 2230 - 2358), but fairly solid up here.

73,

Mark

[Brendan1]

Not nearly as good as Mark's log.

[Alan Johnson]

It takes a while for the band to open up, but once it does things are good.:)

[Brendan1]

Another mixed-quality day here.

[Brendan1]

Still scraping by here, not so good, not so bad.

[Brendan1]

A little more decode time yesterday towards the end.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

A good result, all dropouts caused by the strong splatters of the adjacent channel AM TX.

[Brendan1]

A fractionally better log.

[Brendan1]

Yesterday wasn't bad at all.

[Brendan1]

About the same as yesterday. :rolleyes:

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

A good result tonight.

[Brendan1]

It's not fast, but you can see that Sackville is slowly increasing in SNR over the day.

[Alan Johnson]

A late start today, but good reception.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

A very good result tonight.

[Brendan1]

Fairly good signal levels when Sackville did make it out here. A lot of up/down variability to the band however...:o

[Brendan1]

Somewhat better. :) I just wish they'd leave the transmitter going all day so I could get a nice picture of the propagation swing during the day.

[Brendan1]

Missed part of the morning because of a mis-set control, my bad. :rolleyes:

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

A very good result again tonight.

[Brendan1]

A bit on the down side yesterday.

[Brendan1]

Still trying out here, but not getting a lot of help.

[simone]

Not so good here either :(
Simone

[Brendan1]

I got busy this last weekend, so sorry to not post sooner.

[Brendan1]

A fairly ho-hum day, not much of a signal yesterday. :(

[Brendan1]

More signal today, but still quite variable.

[Brendan1]

I want some sunspots, NOW!

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

A very good result tonight.

[Brendan1]

Eh, not so good, not so bad.

[Brendan1]

Boy, propagation is not helping anything right now.

[simone]

Not too bad here last night :)
Simone

[Brendan1]

Not very good, again! Only the last hour is good.

[Brendan1]

There were times yesterday when I was quite sure that CBC was off-air, as there was absolutely no trace of any signal on the waterfall. As it is, the log reflects propagation that is not very steady. Had to reboot: ergo, two parts.

[Brendan1]

Due to some antenna work and receiver experimentation, I haven't been able to post until now. Not a bad day, once we pass noon local time (1900UTC). The morning hours were terrible!

[Brendan1]

I guess it's just a bad time of the year for me to be able to receive this frequency with any acceptable level of quality. :(

[Brendan1]

Slightly better conditions yesterday, despite the solar indices being lower in value. :confused:

[Brendan1]

Reception remains problematic.

[Brendan1]

I'm no longer bothering with the morning period here - simply not worth the time. :(

[Brendan1]

A surprisingly good last 90 minutes or so. :)

[Brendan1]

Well, well, well. I had a signal for most of the afternoon, although not decodable for most of the time. This is an improvement. :o

[Brendan1]

Still doing better, no backsliding (yet).

[Brendan1]

Same conditions as yesterday, no change either up or down in propagation.

[Brendan1]

A very short log, was swapping out antennas. Great reception for the duration!

[Brendan1]

Interesting day, up and down though.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

A good result, SQ:98.83%, tonight.

[Brendan1]

Had to take a breather due to a new job and odd hours. Still dicey reception here I'm afraid to say. :(

[Alan Johnson]

I started logging late and it took a bit of time for the band to open.

[Brendan1]

Not too bad yesterday. Not too good either, but we can't have everything can we? :o

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

A very good result tonight, althought a short one...

[Brendan1]

Yesterday's results, still somewhat hampered by conditions both natural and man-made however.

[Brendan1]

Looking better. It's nice to have some signal all day, the last few weeks were very lean (i.e. extremely poor). There was a thunderstorm slowly making its way through the area during the morning hours, so this is worse than it really was.

[Brendan1]

Holding steady: the variable conditions continued.

[Brendan1]

Got really slammed mid-day, looks like conditions ganged up on me. :(

[Brendan1]

Same as yesterday: mid-day the signal just drops out entirely for hours. Not much fun with that happening.

[Brendan1]

Only the afternoon logged; more than a few minutes of "no signal." :(

[Brendan1]

Surprisingly better results yesterday, had longer periods of higher signal strengths. Still have the mid-day blahs though. :(

[Brendan1]

Needed to re-boot mid-day, so that's why there are two parts!

[Brendan1]

Due to other commitments, the logs are a little shorter the last couple of days.

[Brendan1]

Yesterday, quite frankly, was a lousy day for radio. Only one log of four was any good, and it was slow to get a good signal going.

[Brendan1]

Things were pretty dead until the last 2 hours or so. :(

[Brendan1]

Surprise: more signal, more of the time. Still not much for actual decoding though. :rolleyes:

[Brendan1]

Sorry, no log yesterday. Had some PC issues after running some now deleted software, and my soundcard stopped working. Had to fix that of course, so it's better now.

[Alan Johnson]

Things improved after 1600 UTC.

[Brendan1]

Conditions appear to be changing somewhat, although nowhere near what I'd like to see. :cool:

[simone]

Not so good here either, mostly due to interference.
Simone

[Brendan1]

Still not doing so hot out here, but there's more red tracing than before, and that's a good thing. :)

[Brendan1]

Much like yesterday's log.

[Brendan1]

Two parts today, neither of which is all that bad for me. For nearly steady solar indices over the last weeks, this shows a definite shift for the better. Must the change in the length of day or something. :rolleyes:

[Brendan1]

The situation was pretty much unchanged yesterday. A little less signal in the morning, but a little more in the afternoon.

[Brendan1]

Boy, things have changed in the morning hours (1500-1900): basically nothing is getting through (not worth plotting), and the afternoon was quite bad as well.

[Brendan1]

Still practically zero signal in the morning, and the afternoon is only coming in at the last.

[Brendan1]

Not much airtime decoded yesterday, a rather mediocre day.

[Brendan1]

Only managed to log RCI at the end, and not all of that either.

[Brendan1]

Considering how many hours I log, there is a definite lack of usuable signal right now, especially during the morning hours. The afternoon is a little better.

[Brendan1]

Fairly irregular propagation (as in nearly zero) to the west coast still.

[Brendan1]

This log shows just how variable CBC's signal is here.

[Brendan1]

Another all-day log: the shortened days are making a difference (but it's still not enough).

[Brendan1]

There was a distinct lack of SNR, again...:(

[Brendan1]

Yesterday's results aren't all that bad compared to previous weeks. No logs for 2&3 August as I'm house-sitting away from the PC and the receiver.

[Brendan1]

Only the last hour of the 9800 broadcast from yesterday, pretty good I'd say except for the transmitter going out quickly and then back up.

[Brendan1]

Somewhat sparse on the signals yesterday, but hey, that's normal. :(

[Brendan1]

A two part log, because I was doing some anti-interference checks mid-day. I was successful, and executed a faulty dimmer lamp after a summary trial. It was radiating back into the house wiring 24 hours a day with nasty results.

I think my reception is better...:)

[Brendan1]

Some more for the record. :D

[Brendan1]

I've got more...

[Brendan1]

Almost done...;)

[Brendan1]

Last one for now. :o

[Brendan1]

A mixed day for reception.

[Brendan1]

The usual: about 90 minutes of great reception, and hours of mediocrity. :rolleyes:

[Brendan1]

Pointing my loop in an illogical direction (towards S. America) brought higher SNR values across all my logs yesterday. I'm leaving it there for now. ;)

This broadcast is still subject to some band fluctuations, but it's still better...

[Alan Johnson]

Brendan-
I wonder if you're nulling some noise source with the change in loop orientation ??

73,
Alan

[Brendan1]

Hi Alan - Well, I don't think so. It's now pointed right at the house, which is 2 1/2 stories high, stucco, and generally acts as a Faraday cage inside. If said cage is concentrating the RF somehow, I'm all for it. There are a couple of dimmer switches inside, but their effect is minimal. I have yet to let the builder know about this change in his antenna, this may be an unintended consequence of a change he made to the design a few months ago.

Short path to Sackville from me is at 72 degrees true, and the loop is now at 130 degrees, so why the 58 degree difference I'm not sure.

Mystery bearings aside, reception is not all that bad now. Hmm, on second thought, there is a mountain peak at just about 70 degrees from me, although it's about 50 miles away. I've never heard of topography affecting HF quite like that, so perhaps pointing the loop right at it has some effect? Who knows?

[Brendan1]

Not bad yesterday. :)

[Brendan1]

Even better. :D

[Brendan1]

The changing season is bringing some (good) changes in propagation.

[Brendan1]

Conditions were off on all frequencies yesterday, not just this one. :(

[Brendan1]

Not a bad day for logging (except for the Blue Screen Of Death that led to a re-boot :mad: ).

[Brendan1]

Another fairly good day, although far from perfect. :o

[Brendan1]

A nice log. :)

[Brendan1]

Two day's worth of logs, didn't have time yesterday to post.

[Brendan1]

Pretty good log yesterday, conditions were excellent. :)

[Brendan1]

Another pretty good log.

[Brendan1]

Propagation seems to be holding fairly steady right now. :)

[Brendan1]

Pretty good once more.

[Brendan1]

Very odd/strange conditions yesterday - I don't have a good explanation for why reception was so bad and the signal level so mediocre. :(

Reception today (so far) is much more normal.

[Brendan1]

Some info: all day (until 2300) the SDC was set to "TDP" and the bitrate was 20.96kbps. Not until Radio China came up at 2300 was anything updated. The higher bitrate does not help make the transmission come in any easier...:(

[Brendan1]

Forgot to post yesterday - pretty good logs the last two days.

[Brendan1]

Good reception continues.

[Brendan1]

It was a good day, both in propagation and the local terrestrial weather. :D

[Brendan1]

Yesterday's geomagnetic disturbances didn't help any. :(

[Brendan1]

Not as good as most days of late, the ionosphere was still somewhat disturbed.

[Brendan1]

Still not so good.

[Alan Johnson]

Lots of variability in the SNR, but good audio.

[Brendan1]

The last 90 minutes did quite well, I just wish the rest of the day were as good.

Today's log (8th) will be shorter: I'm working on receiving TDF Montsinery.

[Brendan1]

Yesterday afternoon was quite good. Dream kept crashing in the morning for some reason, so the logs weren't very long nor was reception all that great.

[Brendan1]

Not bad yesterday, conditions are getting pretty good now.

[Brendan1]

More signal more of the time. :)

[Brendan1]

Fairly good conditions yesterday, not perfect however (when do we ever have perfect conditions?). ;)

[Brendan1]

Solar conditions took a little dive yesterday, and the log suffered for it. :(

Off to a lakeside cabin for a couple of days. No DRM radio, no computer. Back on Friday.

[Brendan1]

Not so good this afternoon, seems like the band has become more variable.

[Brendan1]

Still not so good, although the afternoon was pretty good.

[Brendan1]

Forgot to upload yesterdays' log! Here's two days worth. :rolleyes:

[Brendan1]

The morning hours are still rather poor, but the afternoon has certainly returned to good conditions.

[midre]

Hi all,

nearly 20 minutes perfect reception from Sackville / Canada here at
my current place .( Avignon/ South France).
Sorry for the bad Picture. Capture Soft didn´t work perfect with my
netbook....

Michael

edit: screenshot improved

[Brendan1]

Good work Michael! That's impressive for being so far out of the target area.

Somewhat better morning reception yesterday.

[Digger]

Seems to me that I am directly in line with the back lobe from Sackville. Anyway, the signal is very strong here and this Vatican Radio Broadcast boomed in tonight. I was not present all the time so I cannot tell what happened in the middle of the log :confused:

The SNR peaked at 31.8 dB at 20:25 UTC. Interesting. The log is only 20 minutes long.

[Digger]

Just at the beginning at 2100 the label read "RNW", but soon after it changed to "RCI". The signal was strong, but there was nearby QRM making the reception difficult. The result for the one hour transmission resulted in about 70% CDA. The reception during the last 30 minutes was perfect! :cool:

The second log shows that there was not much to hear from Radio Sweden or CRI. The log was unattended except for the very beginning.

[Brendan1]

I have enough variation in my log around the 20:25 timeframe to be unable to confirm anything funny happening at that time (I autolog without listening).

A fairly normal day here.

[Digger]

Roughly the same pattern as last night but worse...