View Full Version : DW Sines 15440 kHz
Hi,
I started listening at 09:00 today. After 100 minutes the result was 97.5 % correct audio.
73's Per - SM0ITS
Hi all,
deep selective fading but still good results, using the portable sony receiver,
see attachment
73, Simone
Hi all,
interferences were again bad this morning, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi,
Compared with last week when I had 97.5 % correct audio, todays result was a disaster. Just 18 % correct audio today. Low SNR, just 10 dB. And this frequency is usually one of the best DRM signals that I can receive. Hopefully propagation is soon back to normal.
73's Per - SM0ITS
Hi all,
My log for 15440kHz today. Good reception here in Scotland with near perfect audio.
Hi,
today's reception in Munich, including a loss of DRM signal and an unmodulated AM carrier for a short interval in between.
dk8cb
ATS-803-A + NE 612 mixer + dipole antenna, originally for 7 and 14 MHz and extending in E-W-direction
Hi,
Todays reception between 10:50 and 13:25 gave a lot of changing result. In total 74 % correct audio.
73's Per - SM0ITS
Hi all,
perfect reception and very high SNR, but sound could be better. Still too loud.
Hi all,
today was the day with the weakest signal from Sines I ever got, see attachment
73, Simone
FritzWue
04-04-2004, 19:41
Same bad results here today. I have no log, but there was am interference on the same frequency, seemed to be chinese language or similar.
HI all
I`m Carlos CT4RK trought the CT1ADT login. I`m trought this login because is not possible send any message to the forum. something is wrong with my login. Since the first problems with the forum no more was possible for me enter in any thread. Only can read, but canot write nothing.
This is the unique way to contact with all of us.
Best regards anda 73 from
CT4RK
FritzWue
05-04-2004, 07:56
Hi Carlos,
these problems sometimes happen with vBulletin, it happened to me too in another forum.
I simply registered again under a new login.
Hi
Nice to see this "old friend" making an appearance here in NZ again :-) Only fair reception before being blocked by CRI, but it's been a long time since I've decoded anything from this broadcast.
73 Chris
AR-7030 + longwire
maxpower
06-04-2004, 09:41
Great reception in the north of germany today!
I get more than 32db out of the signal with my new elektor-receiver (more in reveiver-mods)
Stephan
Hi all,
here are my results from this morning, still problems with interferences, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi all,
again interferences in the morning, good results after 10:00, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi all,
perfect reception today. Sound is still a bit too loud and causes distortion in the bass of newer R&B and Dance songs.
But the music on the new DW radio is really great. A real great variaty. I would like to hear DW Radio 24h per day!
Hi all,
great reception this morning, strong and stable signal, no problems with interferences, see attachment
73, Simone
perfect reception, but still too loud.
Started very weak this morning, but improved soon.
Hi all,
this morning a weak signal after transmission started a few minutes late, great results after 10:13, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi all,
seems they had some problems at Sines today, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi all,
perfect results this morning, the interfering station not causing problems, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi all,
a weak start and some problems with interferences this morning, see attachment
Hi,
here is my report about half an hour of quite good reception today.
dk8cb
Hi all,
after 0900 very strong co-channel interference and the worst results I ever got on this transmission, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi all,
we got this co-channel interference as long as I know and DW ist not able and even not willing to solve that. And the sound quality is still bad from Sines.
Hi all,
reception improved today with reduced bitrate, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi all,
today some problems during the first hour of the transmission, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi all,
still co-channel interferences, but not causing a problem at the lower bitrate this morning, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi,
here is my report over a short listening period.
There was interference from another station, its carrier was sometimes clearly visible in the spectrum.
dk8cb
Hi all,
still bad audio quality from Sines !
73, Klaus
Hi all,
seemed there was a problem with the transmitter in the first minutes, good results later but also a short period with interferences at 0900, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi,
here is my report on a 40 minute interval of today's transmission.
dk8cb
Perfect reception this morning. But they have to do something against their really bad audio quality in Sines. Still too loud and it really sounds like the old encoder version with ugly artifacts.
Juelich and Wertachtal have a top sound quality, so it is not the source material.
Perfect reception and very high SNR as usual for Sines.
Also a Sines comparision.
Seems a bit weaker today. Again problems just after 9 UTC Interference?
Hi Carsten and others,
seemed they were experiencing some trouble at Sines today, results as usual in the comparison with a higher SNR for Carsten, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi,
It was interesting to observe the change in SNR when the interfering station on 15445 kHz closed down at 8:00. SNR went from 9 dB to 19 dB!
After that it was smooth sailing with DW.
73's Per - SM0ITS
Hi,
111 minutes of DW, 9-11 UTC: 99.5 %, i.e. excellent reception.
73's Per - SM0ITS
2 hours of perfect reception. See Comparision with Simones results.
Hi Simone,
100 percent for both of us.
Hi,
Also today I had 111 minutes of DW!
Starting at 11 UTC the reception was a little bit shaky, but it soon improved.
73's Per - SM0ITS
Hi,
Very good reception from Sines today. Average SNR: 26 dB, with a maximum of 29 dB! Listening from 8:00 - 10:50 UTC.
73's Per - SM0ITS
Hi,
Also today perfect reception from Sines and DW with its music program.
Listening time: 8:10-10:00.
73's Per - SM0ITS
Hi all,
perfect audio decoding this morning, although there were some periods with lower SNR, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi,
Some good listening results and great music from DW Sines; 11:00-12:30 UTC.
I wander what happened at 11:56?
73's Per - SM0ITS
Hi Per!!
After a long period that I canot login, I`m back!
At 11:56 we change the antena, but remain the same target! I`m surprised, because the antenas are beamed to 40º and have the same gain and are also turnable courtain antena, and about 500m way, one from the other!. The second one have less SWR,!! why the signal is not so strong????:confused:
73 from CT4RK
Hi all,
still the co-channel interference causing problems till 0940 today, see attachment
73, Simone
@Carlos: Great to see you are back!
Hi,
This is my result from Sines; 08:00 - 11:45. There was, I believe, some major transmitter problem during the first half hour. I'm not sure what happend at 09:55 - 10:15. But otherwise it was perfect reception, as usuall.
73's Per - SM0ITS
Hi,
My result from 8-11 UTC, the start of transmission was a couple of minutes too late. At 10 UTC the SNR was reduced with some 6 dB. Interference?
73's Per - SM0ITS
Hi all,
I wonder what was wrong in the first hour today, perfect after the break at 0925, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi,
This is my 3 hour result from 8-11 UTC.
@ Carlos , if there was an antenna change today? (10:40), it didn't affect reception as it did earlier.
Note the increase of SNR when the interfering station (+ 5 kHz) closed down at 8:00!
73's Per - SM0ITS
TimoHannes
14-06-2004, 20:32
Hi Per !
Here are my results for Sines at 13.06.2004. Looks very similar as yours.
TImo
TimoHannes
14-06-2004, 20:35
Hi !
My results for Sines at this morning (14.06.2004). What is that breakout at 09:15?
Just managed to produce a log file from todays Sines transmission, unfortunatly no AUDIO at this end , due
to low SNR and high Bitrate of that DRM transmission.
Hi,
excellent reception today.
I have found out that the signal from Sines has much deeper nulls in the spectrum than those I usually encounter from other sites.
As a result, I have to increase soundcard input volume quite a bit more than usual, to prevent those parts of the spectrum that are affected by the nulls to disappear in the noise floor. When doing so, I get much better results with signals from Sines than I did before.
dk8cb
Hi,
I do have the impression, that the Sines encoder produces bass distortion that sounds like bass clipping, on certain music tracks that are more bassy than others.
Can anyone confirm this observation?
dk8cb
Leemkuil
18-06-2004, 17:45
Here a short report.
Comparision between indoor antenna and outdoor antenna
Indor antenna 1 meter wire
Outdoor antenna Diamon CP6
>>>>
DRMSoftwareRadio-MERLIN-00000194
Software Version 2.0.34
Starttime (UTC) 2004-06-16 08:35:57
Frequency 15440 kHz
Latitude 52°16'N
Longitude 6°58'E
Label DW-Sines
Bitrate 17.38 kbps
Mode B
Bandwidth 10 kHz
Comment Tentec RX320 receiver 1 meter indoor antenna
MINUTE SNR SYNC AUDIO TYPE
0000 17 150 1190/10 0
0001 18 150 1350/10 0
0002 18 149 1440/10 0
0003 18 150 1500/10 0
0004 16 150 1390/10 0
0005 17 150 1370/10 0
0006 17 150 1470/10 0
0007 20 150 1500/10 0
0008 17 150 1500/10 0
0009 16 150 1280/10 0
0010 16 149 1330/10 0
0011 17 150 1500/10 0
0012 16 150 1360/10 0
0013 17 149 1300/10 0
0014 18 151 1510/10 0
0015 19 150 1500/10 0
0016 20 150 1500/10 0
0017 19 150 1500/10 0
0018 19 150 1500/10 0
0019 20 150 1500/10 0
0020 20 150 1500/10 0
0021 19 150 1500/10 0
0022 19 150 1230/10 0
0023 13 149 590/10 0
0024 16 150 1350/10 0
0025 17 150 1500/10 0
0026 17 150 1450/10 0
0027 16 150 1500/10 0
0028 17 150 1480/10 0
0029 16 150 890/10 0
0030 8 78 20/10 0
SNR min: 0.0, max: 21.5
CRC: 0xe7d2
<<<<
>>>>
DRMSoftwareRadio-MERLIN-00000194
Software Version 2.0.34
Starttime (UTC) 2004-06-16 09:09:32
Frequency 15440 kHz
Latitude 52°16'N
Longitude 6°58'E
Label DW-Sines
Bitrate 17.38 kbps
Mode B
Bandwidth 10 kHz
Comment Tentec RX320 receiver Diamon cp6 antenna
MINUTE SNR SYNC AUDIO TYPE
0000 21 150 1500/10 0
0001 22 150 1500/10 0
0002 19 150 1500/10 0
0003 22 150 1500/10 0
0004 23 150 1500/10 0
0005 23 150 1500/10 0
0006 21 150 1500/10 0
0007 21 150 1500/10 0
0008 20 150 1500/10 0
0009 22 150 1500/10 0
0010 23 150 1500/10 0
0011 22 150 1500/10 0
0012 23 150 1500/10 0
0013 23 150 1500/10 0
0014 23 150 1500/10 0
0015 24 150 1500/10 0
0016 22 150 1500/10 0
0017 19 150 1500/10 0
0018 20 150 1500/10 0
0019 20 150 1490/10 0
0020 22 150 1500/10 0
SNR min: 16.5, max: 24.0
CRC: 0x3ee4
<<<<
The test for both antenna looks very well
Regard Gerard PE7GL
Hi,
good reception today, but bassy music is always distorted.
dk8cb
Again bad audio quality from Sines ! :(
73, Klaus
Hi,
Also today the SNR was 8-10 dB lower than usuall. Listening time: 08:07 (late start of Tx!) - 10:50 UTC.
73's Per - SM0ITS
Hi,
Todays listening was between 10:30 and 11:50 UTC. Quite good despite some big drops in 'frames'.
73's Per - SM0ITS
Hi all,
no problems with interferences this morning, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi all,
strange results till 0925 this morning, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi all!
The drops hapened because we had a lot of trips in the TX, and the TX was not the usual! About 09:20 UTC I was changed to the usual TX.
Hi Carsten and others
About sound quality, is strange but we canot find any distortion on our reference receiver!. Maybe is some software diference between dream, FHG and our professional reference receiver software, but the transmission are for general public, not for reference receivers! hi hi hi!!! Is realy strange because we was tested all the audio circuits and canot find nothing wrong. We carefuly monitoring the input audio level at the encoder and rarely go yellow.
Can any body, record a sample of a bad audio quality and send to me in MP3 format?...if yes, please send to me by mail.
My mail is : radiofarol@hotmail.com
Many thanks.
Hi Carlos,
here are my results from this morning, looks like a lot of trouble, concerning the audio quaility, I did not notice these distortions on basses and low-pitched voices anymore since last weekend when I listened.
73, Simone
Hi Carlos,
I tried to send you the files, but it failed. So I put them on my homepage.
http://home.arcor.de/carsten.knuetter/sines_1.mp3
http://home.arcor.de/carsten.knuetter/sines_2.mp3
You can hear the distortion in the bass quite well. It is only in songs with deep and strong bass. And there are also songs with more distortion than these two. The audio level from Sines is 6 dB higher than from Wertachtal or Juelich, maybe that is the problem. It also sounds much more sharp than other station like RTL or TDP. I think that your audio level is too high. Or do you use a different encoder software in Sines?
Hi Simone and Carsten!
Yes Simone! we had a lot of trouble with the software. Somethings was wrong on the first 40 minuts, but the probleme was solved next with a general reset to all sistem.
Carsten! thanks for the link to your webpage! I can listen perfectllly the bass distortion. The strange is that I canot listen this distortion in our receiver!:confused: ... About the software that the other stations are using, I dont know, but I tell to the station manager to call for Julich and Wertachtal, and ask about wath kind of software encoder using.
Today at 09:30 UTC I will go reduce a little the audio input and please if you are listen tell me something about the quality.
Thanks in advance.
Carsten!
3 dBs down at 09:20!
Hi Carlos,
I listened today after you reduced the audio level ( at both bitrates) and did not notice any distortions. It seems you did not get my message asking to use the old settings again.
Interestingly last Sunday morning I listened to the same song that Carsten recorded yesterday (the 1st one) which is a typical example, and there were no distortions, I had not set the volume control to max. at that time as Carsten did for the recording, maybe that makes a difference but it is no problem with all other stations. I don´t think that the level at the encoder causes this problem, do you use a satellite feed for the audio (digital?)
What input level will be used on the other transmission this evening?
Btw great results today and no need to reduce the bitrate in the morning anymore.
73, Simone
Ho Simone!
Thanks for your report!
I did not get any message from you, asking for the old setings! sorry!...About the audio feeder...yes! the audio source is the digital DW downlink from satellite. We are review all levels, and its seem correct. The audio output from the satellite RX also seems OK, but as I said some time ago, I have a auditive helt problem and canot listen more than 2,5 KHz and no longer can listen down 100Hz! I have a SSB fillter inside of my had! hihihihih!
Probablly the sound quality is much better than I can listen, because I canot find diference in audio quallity between 11 Kbps and 22Kbps!!! for me is the same!...So all the sounds for me sounded very loud!
Hi Carlos,
I would like to check the satellite link simultanously if you can give me the parameters for the channel you are using, as I know this problem from other DVB-S audio services.
73, Simone
Hi Simone and Carlos,
is the level still reduced on 13790khz? I just heart many distortion in bass again.
@Simone
I reduced DRM Radio Level to nearly zero and the were still there.
Hi Carsten,
I think it is still reduced.
So if the volume control does not matter why was everything OK on Sunday, I had listened very carefully with the headphones.
Simone
Hi all,
today I made again two samples. Beginning with Sines 20.9 kbps mono and 100% Volume slider in DRM Radio, then reduced to 20%, then again full volume, then switch to DW Juelich with 14 kbps in the sines5.mp3 to DW Wertachtal with 17.4 kbps para stereo. And Sines is still 6 dB louder than Wertachtal.
http://home.arcor.de/carsten.knuetter/sines4.mp3
http://home.arcor.de/carsten.knuetter/sines5.mp3
Hi Carsten and Carlos,
this evening there were huge differences in audio levels between different pieces of music, those that had the distortion were by far the loudest, probably different sources of the audio. It was the same on satellite HB6, TP155, service labelled PF1 (German Telekom).
@ Carlos: Is this the one you use in the evening, I could not find the correspoding satellite service for the earlier transmission, I guess the other one is DW-M?
73, Simone
Hi simone and Carsten
At UTC 10:15 I will be put more 3 dbs audio.
The corrent settings are like yesturday (-3db)
Hi Carsten and Simone
At UTC 10:27 I was change the audio level again but now -4,5 dBs and I was bypassed a impedance audio transformer!
Did you note any diference?
Can you listen on 15545KHz and tell me if there are also distortion?...the 15545KHz is made by another TX and of course another encoder, but the audio source is the same.
Sorry Carlos, but I cannot check audio on workingdays.
My impression this evening was that the 13790 khz had a lower audio level and had no distortions. The 15435 khz now is louder and has still distortions.
Hi Carsten,
I tried to listen via satellite, the 13790 khz transmission uses another channel, which I have not figured out yet, since I have started listening on 15435 kHz it is classical music, low audio levels and no problems.
73, Simone
PS: Shouldn`t we start a new thread about the audio problems as we are mixing all the frequencies from Sines?
Hi Simone and Carlos,
today (Saturday) the 15440 khz with the lower audio level at 17.4 kbps has no bass distortions anymore. The 15545 khz is also running. With 24.7 kbps but higher audio level and you can hear the bass distortions. Please check the audio files where I switched between 15440 and 15545 khz. If the only difference is the audio level, then we found the reasons for the bass problems.
http://home.arcor.de/carsten.knuetter/sines6.mp3
http://home.arcor.de/carsten.knuetter/sines7.mp3
Hi Carsten,
I also listened this morning, now after some Tx problems and the bitrate change audio levels on 15440 kHz were increased a lot, now higher than on 15545kHz!
According to Carlos these two Tx use the same audio feed, so the only difference should be the audio levels.
73, Simone
Hi all,
now 20.9 kbps on 15440 khz with very high audio level, even higher than on 15545 khz, but still no distortions:confused: So it is not the audio level....
Hi Carsten,
I recoreded all songs during the last hour, no distotions with the extremely high level! So it must be something else.
@Carlos. What was changed before the restart at 11:12, another Tx or encoder? And do you use different types of encoders on 15440khz and 15545kHz?
73, Simone
Hi,
absolutely great audio quality with the sound of the Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra playing Bach at the moment (13:15 UTC).
But a very slight interference from a carrier on 15435 kHz, at least that's what it looks like. Can anyone else confirm this occasionally visible carrier?
dk8cb
Hi Roland,
you´re right, audio quality was great, but still high audio levels, no interference in my location, here are my results from this morning, some problems from 1045.
73, Simone
And here is my report. Shortly before sign-off, a much stronger station (> 30 dB stronger) came on 10 kHz lower, which ruined my reception.
Perhaps a better filter might have helped.
dk8cb
Hi Sines,
today (Sunday) both encoders/txs 15440 and 15545 khz are running without any bass or other distortions! The 24.6 kbps mono sounds fantastic! What was the reason for these distortions? Also sounds less sharp now. Perfect, I would say.
Hi,
This is my report from this morning, 09:50 until 11:15 UTC. At 10:20 the usually perfect reception was slightly degraded.
73's Per - SM0ITS
Hi,
Todays listening was between 12 and 13:00 UTC. Also today some degredation of the reception, but generally good.
73's Per - SM0ITS
Hi,
I started my usual DRM listening at 8:30 this morning, just to discover that reception was very bad also from Sines.
I guess this is the reason:
BY THE AUSTRALIAN SPACE FORECAST CENTRE.
Degraded HF conditions possible on 17 July due to an
anticipated rise in geomagnetic activity during this
period.
Hi all,
perfect results and high SNR this morning (no need for the reduced bitrate), see attachment
73, Simone
Here is my report on an hour of reception this morning.
dk8cb
Hi all,
here is a report of the complete transmission today, using the old FRG 8800 and a telescopic antenna indoors, perfect all day!
73, Simone
Hi,
Perfect reception from Sines, 08:00-09:20 UTC during the music program.
Hi,
My second listening period today; 13:00 until close down at 13:55. But why is the close down never synchronised with the program content? Now it ended in the middle of a sentence with the Brazilian rain forest. However, good reception.
Hi!
Here is my reception report from Sines today 24-July-04 at 8:00 - 13:54 UTC. The audio quality was very good, as it usually has been every time I am listening in Sines.
My receiver is a simple home made receiver. AD8099 pre-amplifier, AD9834 DDS, TUF-3 mixer, 12 MHz crystal ladder filter (6 pcs 12 MHz crystals) and TUF-3 downmixer to 12 kHz.
Antenna is a 5 meter long outdoor antenna. My computer is a 2.8GHz Pentium with Dream Software Version 1.0.8
QTH: Helsinki, Finland
73's
Hi,
A day with fairly bad propagation resulted in just 52 % correctly decoded audio! Listening time: 11:00 - 12:20 UTC.
I compared the other transmission from Sines earlier this morning on 15 545 kHz. On that frequency, with a bitrate of 24 kbps, the reception was even worse than on 15 440 with its 17 kbps.
Hi,
Today the higher frequencies are almost back to normal propagation.
Listening time today: 08:20 to 09:40. Result: 94 %.
Hi all,
quite good again today although SNR is still a bit lower and instable, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi,
Listening time today: 10:20 - 11:11 UTC.
On this frequency with a bit rate of 17 kbps I had an average SNR of 22.5 dB. On 15 545 kHz, also from Sines, an hour earlier, but with a bit rate of 24.7 kbps with similar SNR I had much worse correctly decoded audio. 76 % compared with 99.5 %! But the audio quality was superior with 24.7 kbps.
Hi!
Here is my report of Sines 15440kHz. It was very stable and
good quality as it usually is here in Helsinki.
73's Seppo
Hi,
here is my report on today's reception.
dk8cb
Hi!
This morning at 08:03 I took a spectrum showing an amplitude
modulated 15440kHz signal at level -75dB. At 08:04 Sines
turned on the carrier wave which was at level -25dB. The
third picture shows then the DRM level at 08:06.
DRM was perfect and this other transmitter at the same
frequency did not affect the audio quality at all.
Reception was 100% as you can see from my next post.
...Seppo
Hi!
Here is my report of today at 08:05 - 08:57
...Seppo
Hi,
Listening time today was 08:30 until 09:45. Perfect result: 99.9 % ! Good audio quality too.
Hi,
As can be seen on the HAP chart, 16 MHz is optimum frequency for reception from Sines at my location. The result, from 08:40 - 09:50, is as expected very good:
99.7 %.
Hi Seppo,
That's a really good SNR. What radio/converter are you using?
Tom
Originally posted by hsseppo
Hi!
Here is my report of today at 08:05 - 08:57
...Seppo
Hi Seppo,
I found the answer to my question farther up the thread. Well done! I've been looking for instances of high SNR and so far yours is among the best!
73, Tom
Originally posted by hsseppo
My receiver is a simple home made receiver. AD8099 pre-amplifier, AD9834 DDS, TUF-3 mixer, 12 MHz crystal ladder filter (6 pcs 12 MHz crystals) and TUF-3 downmixer to 12 kHz.
Antenna is a 5 meter long outdoor antenna. My computer is a 2.8GHz Pentium with Dream Software Version 1.0.8
QTH: Helsinki, Finland
73's
Hi!
Here is my report of yesterday 14-Aug-04. SNR changed very much. The reason was perhaps the strong AM station at the frequency 15435. My IF bandwidth 12 kHz is too wide. I should chance it to 10 kHz.
...Seppo
Hi!
Here is my report 14-Aug-04 at 12:05 - 13:39. The AM station at 15435 kHz was very strong, about 20 dB over the DRM level. I adjusted my receiving frequency 3 kHz higher at 12:30, so that 15435 kHz carrier wave was attenuated by IF filter more. Result was much better. So my opinion is, that the IF crystal filter should be very selective 10 kHz bandwidth.
...Seppo
PS. Many thanks for your comment Tom!
Hi Seppo,
Great SNR again. I'm amazed to see your reports - sometimes maxing around 32 dB, I've seen averages of 30 dB. And yet, there's the occasional dropout. I wonder if this is due to the channel impulse response spreading outside the window of acceptability, even though the channel SNR is high.
Which brings me to the question of passband. My dead-bug ugly NE612 downconverter when fed with a protoboard DRM upconverter gives DReaM readings of about 33 dB S/N and 0.5 ms response without a filter, 28 dB and 0.7 ms with a filter, but merely shoving the DRM bandwidth off the nominal 455kHz frequency by 2.5 kHz results in an improvement to 32 dB and 0.6 ms response. From this, I think the filter shape and alignment of centre frequency with the DRM bandwidth are very critical. The narrower the filter, the wider the impulse reponse; would the impulse response of the propagation path be spread by the receiver IR? The wider the impulse response of the receiver/downconverter, the higher the rate of dropout?
In your case of tuning to one side to suppress the interfering carrier, you might check on a nice clean DRM signal whether tuning to one side places the DRM bandwidth in a more favorable area of your receiver's passband.
I think it would be desirable to have filter switching, at least in and out. Under quiet band conditions, the wider passband may be an advantage.
Tom
Originally posted by hsseppo
Hi!
Here is my report 14-Aug-04 at 12:05 - 13:39. The AM station at 15435 kHz was very strong, about 20 dB over the DRM level. I adjusted my receiving frequency 3 kHz higher at 12:30, so that 15435 kHz carrier wave was attenuated by IF filter more. Result was much better. So my opinion is, that the IF crystal filter should be very selective 10 kHz bandwidth.
...Seppo
PS. Many thanks for your comment Tom!
Perfect as usual on this frequency. I think that there is no reason anymore to lower the bitrate in the first part. I cannot detect any AM interferer anymore.
Hi,
The transmission was 2 minutes late today, but once on air it was, as usual, very good reception. The SNR varied today between 20 and 27 dB.
Hi,
What to say? Average SNR 26 dB for 90 minutes. Result 100 % !
Hi!
Today again 100% at 08:05 - 09:02 UTC 15440 kHz.
...Seppo
Hi!
Also, at 10:11 to 11:28 100%. During 09:06 - 10:09 I was listening in the frequecy 15545 kHz which was 94.7 % ok.
Seppo
A little more than 3 hours - 98,9 %.
Hi,
today, I do not get ANY audio at all from Sines on 15440 and on 15545 kHz. Signal is strong, SNR is very low and there are carriers on both signals, but even with those carriers, there was always audio on other days.
I have tried with different versions of Dream. No difference.
Reception of other DRM stations is ok. Estimated channel impulse response on Sines' channels also looks good.
What happened? Has a software update gone wrong or is it just the interference?
Roland
Hi Roland,
Quite normal here.
Originally posted by dk8cb
Hi,
What happened? Has a software update gone wrong or is it just the interference?
Roland
Hi Roland,
No problem either at my location, both channels playing happily. Listening as I write.
Hi Roland and others,
no such problems today in my location, see report of the 5 hours of transmission attached
73, Simone
Hi!
15440 kHz, 11:54 - 13:54 UTC. Good quality and stable signal.
...Seppo
Hi,
Todays listening was between 08:08 and 10:30 UTC. Strong and solid signal = 99 %.
All interference before 12:00 was caused by my simultaneous computing. At 12:00 a break in the transmission in Sines, after that some part of the interference was home-made, too. Relatively low SNR that did not prevent from an enjoyable listening.
Hi!
Here are also two reports:
Receiver-1 is AD8099,AD9834 DDS,TUF-3 mixer with 12MHz (11kHz wide) crystal ladder filter.
Receiver-2 is Sony ICF-2001D with 12 kHz wide 455kHz ceramic filter and SA612 mixer. RX-1 was 98.9 % and RX-2 was 98.8%
...Seppo
Hi,
100%.
But I feel I have to modify the ATS-803A for a better SNR.
Roland
Originally posted by dk8cb
Hi,
100%.
But I feel I have to modify the ATS-803A for a better SNR.
Roland
I wonder:
Two receivers side-by-side using the same antenna, both achieve the same high success rate in audio decoding (say 99.9%) but one registers 30 dB max DRM SNR, the other 20dB. As far as the listener is concerned, they sound the same with no difference in audio SNR and distortion. If propagation conditions deteriorate, will the 'better SNR' receiver dramatically outperform the 'lower SNR' radio? When the 'better SNR' radio declines significantly below 99.9% audio success, what success rate will the 'poorer SNR' radio be achieving? What are the respective SNR's at this point?
These differences would indicate what margin of advantage there may be by taking great pains to achieve highest potential DRM SNR. Average listeners are liable to tune away when succesful audio decoding drops significantly below 99.9%.
Seppo's dual reports are quite interesting in this regard.
Tom
Hi Tom,
I think that there will not be much difference if a low bitrate is used and if your SNR is not close to the limit where dropouts begin.
But there is a difference with high bitrate where a higher SNR is required. I have problems receiving DW Sines on 15545 kHz with about 24 kBit/s (stereo transmission) because my receiver degrades the SNR too much, most likely due to its oscillator phase noise.
A slight drop in the SNR will result in an audio dropout. I know that reception in Munich can be much better, but I never reach a high SNR on the higher frequencies.
I will get values of >24 dB on mediumwave occasionally, however.
I have been thinking about reasons for this and I have arrived at the following explanation.
Phase noise depends much on loop gain of the PLL and will be lower with high overall loop gain. At low frequencies, the varicap diode has a much steeper capacitance vs tuning voltage slope which results in a higher overall loop gain of the PLL and thus less oscillator phase noise. At higher frequencies, overall loop gain is reduced because of the less steep slope of the tuning characteristics and SNR becomes worse.
There may be other reasons as well, but my idea is to increase loop gain and see what will happen...
Roland
Hi!
This is the report of yesterday 1.9.04 10:53 - 11:34
...Seppo
Hi!
15440 kHz at 08:27 - 13:59 UTC 332 minutes, 99.4 %
...Seppo
Hi!
Dual report of 15440 kHz at 08:00 - 10:58. Rx-1 99.8% Rx-2 99.6%
...Seppo
Hi,
It should be interesting if there is any report from Finland this morning. I started "listening" at about 08:05 this morning: not a trace of any DRM-signal! Finally at 08:15 there was a low SNR signal, which became "normal" at 08:20. After 100 minutes I had 90 % in total.
Tjänare, Per
I did not make logs today but I use to listen to Sines every day.
If I recall right this late, the start was quite normal today, I think. Yesterday I logged a long pause in the transmission at 15435 kHz at about 18:20.
Hi!
My report 15440 kHz looks strange today. At 8:39 - 9:30. Correctly decoded audio only 82.8 %
...Seppo
Hi,
Also today the result from Sines is not what it usually is. I just checked the optimum frequency from Sines to my location and its 16 MHz, so this 15.4 MHz should be fine - and no propagation alerts.
Listening time today: 08:10 until 09:40 UTC. Result: 69%.
Hi!
Yes, 15440 kHz has not been so strong as usually, only 98.8% correctly decoded. Time was 12:43 - 13:55 UTC.
...Seppo
Hi all,
pretty good results today, except a few minutes with interference around 0930, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi DRM,
my afternoon results from Sines on 15440 kHz.
In the attachment you will find a comparison between
FhG and Dream soft .
Logged with FRG 100 and Sony AN1
regards, Michael
.......and here are the same comparison logged with
elektor rx and short wire
regards, Michael
Hi!
15440 kHz at 08:13 - 09:56 99.9 %
...Seppo
Hi!
15440 kHz at 12:00 - 13:54 UTC, 95.6 %
...Seppo
Hi,
Listening time today: 08:40 - 10:25 = 100 minutes. Result: "almost" 100 % (99.2%).
Same program as DW-Bonn on 15545, but here the higher bitrate suffers from changes in SNR, i.e. a lot of non-audio periods. But the 24.7 kbps is superior in sound quality compared with 17.4 kbps.
Hi !
15440 kHz at 08:21 - 09:03 UTC
...Seppo
Hi !
15440 kHz at 12:01 - 13:53 UTC
...Seppo
Hi,
15440 kHz 08:00 - 09:06 100%
...Seppo
Hi,
15440 kHz, 12:03 - 13:54 UTC 99.7%
...Seppo
Hi!
The new Dream 1.1.1c seems to give higher SNR than the version 1.0.8c. My highest SNR today was 33 dB. Here is the report of 15440 kHz at 8:06 - 8:42 100%
...Seppo
(Some part of interference was home-made, otherwise rather good.)
Hi all,
quite good at the beginning, co-channel interference in the second hour, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi,
Todays listening was between 08:05 and 09:30 UTC. The first minutes had a lower SNR, but it soon improved. Result: 98%.
Hi!
My report using Sony ICF2001D, strong and stable as usual.
...Seppo
Hi!
15440 kHz at 08:42 - 09:08 Bitrate 24.74 kbps
...Seppo
Hi!
15440 kHz at 11:55 - 13:53 UTC
...Seppo
For just over an hour this morning in the UK.
I was getting some of the best SNR I've ever seen ~25dB.
Great stuff.
And the result from the North, too. Just to remind how perfect it can be.
After 9.04 UTC I tuned into 15545 because of stereo, and got 95 per cent of the next hour there.
In this part of the world 15440 kHz is blocked by co-channel China Radio International from 0800-1100 UTC :-(
No stereo on 15545 kHz today either - signal was there, but no decoding :-(
Cheers, Chris
No DRM signal on 15440 kHz at 09:27 UTC today, but instead a quite strong AM signal from CRI broadcasting in Chinese.
I suppose, that this station is also the origin of the carrier that is often visible below the DRM signal.
Roland
Also 15545 and 15345 are muted :-(
(TDF/Issoudun tests, 15790 kHz.)
Hi all!
Yesturday we had the anual maintenance of the 60Kv main transformer, and the power from company was shuted down during more or less 3hours.
Hi,
Listening time today was 08:30 until 10:13 UTC. Result: 96%.
Hi,
here is my report on today's reception. During phases of signal fading, CRI's on-channel carrier could clearly be seen sticking out of the DRM spectrum, sometimes by more than 20 dB.
I wonder if CRI's signal can also be seen in the nordic countries like that, or whether it is only that strong in Central Europe.
Roland
Hi Ronald
By chance, I have rather a short logged period that includes some of the time you have.
I see no such interference in DRM spectrum.
After I stopped the logging (but not listening) the reception has remained in about ~ 100%.
Hi,
no more interference in the afternoon. Quite good.
Roland
Hi,
This morning 8.00 - 9:40 UTC, nice reception.
Seppo
Hi DRMs,
fine conditions from Sines on 15440 khz. Strong and stable as I
known it from the past.....
regards, Michael
Hi,
Yes, strong and stable 15440 kHz
Seppo
Hi,
15440 kHz at 08:34 - 10:09 UTC 99.5 %
Seppo
Less hills and valleys in my SNR, much lower in general, but 100 per cent reception.
Hi,
94 minutes, between 11:27 and 13:01 UTC of DW from Sines. Result: 99.9 %.
Hi!
15440 kHz at 11:52 - 13:54 UTC 99.9%
Seppo
Hi all,
strong signal with good results and high SNR this afternoon, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi!
Strong signal, as usual here at Helsinki city. Time 12:05 - 13:55.
Seppo
Good at times during the first hour today before CRI signed on at 09:00.
Cheers, Chris
Here the normal perfect reception. The interference was home-and-computer made only.
Perfect reception here as well, but only till 10:57 UTC
Have you got reception results after 11:00 UTC?
There was protection mode change at 11:00 and I had some reception problems. Probably because of the propagation degradation or local interferences but it would be interesting to see somebody else results till 11:20 UTC.
I join my reception results.
Hi!
At 8:46 - 9:38 UTC, 17.46 kbps, 100%
Seppo
Hi!
At 11:56 - 13:55 UTC 20.96 kbps 99.8%
Seppo
New Zealand log of 15440 kHz from 08:00-09:00 last night. Nice listening.
Cheers, Chris
Good SNR ratio today (8:00-11:30 UTC) but very strange behavior at 8:20 and 8:52 (see attachment). At 11:00 there was the coding rate change so its normal, but not at 8:20 nor 8:52.
Someone has today's results?
Hi,
Yes good SNR today. My report is from 9:31 - 13:54 UTC.
Seppo
Hi,
For a change(?) there was a slight degredation of the SNR between 9:25 and 9:35. Otherwise a strong and stable signal: 08:27 - 09:44 UTC.
Hi,
Just a short listening time today, 11:30 - 12:00 UTC. I was testing the new Logger 2.6 from Carsten. Great sw! Result: 99.8%.
Hi!
Strong signal here in Helsinki again. 99.8 % 110 minutes.
73's Seppo
Hi All
My log from 15440 kHz from 08:00 until 08:50 UTC when co-channel CRI signs-on blocking the signal.
The decoded audio sounded better than the graph indicates. The music towards the end was fine to listen to.
Cheers, Chris
Hi!
Today 15440 kHz was again very strong and stable. 100%
Seppo
Hi!
Still strong signal at 12:42 - 13:38 (56 minutes) 100%. Maximum SNR 29.8 dB.
Seppo
Hi!
08:07 - 08:56 UTC Highest SNR 29.4 dB.
Seppo
Hi All
My log of 15440 kHz for today, using my AOR AR-7030 for a change.
Cheers, Chris
A bit more 15440 from around 12:00 UTC.
Cheers, Chris
Hi!
15440 kHz at 8:29 - 9:32 UTC Maximum SNR 32.1 dB, 99.7 %
Seppo
Some interference with a strong carrier from CRI right on channel.
Sometimes, one could see that CRI's AM modulation is far too wide, because part of it appeared symmetrically to the left and right of Sines' DRM spectrum which had the proper bandwidth.
I always wonder, why there seems to be no interference from CRI in Northern Europe. Perhaps they are using a very directional antenna pointing towards me. :-(
Roland
Yes, we have the same old interference problem on 15440 khz after 9:00 UTC.
Hi!
Here in Helsinki the Sines signal is so strong that CRI interference is not so bad. I have two spectra here showing the interference level. I measured the interference freguency 15435.5 kHz(??). First picture is at 13:57 when the DRM signal is down, the second picture shows just before the DRM ends, at 13:54 UTC, SNR was then 28 dB.
Seppo
Hi!
And here is the report of 15440 kHz at 11:59 - 13:56 UTC 100%. Highest SNR was 32.6.
Seppo
Originally posted by hsseppo
I measured the interference freguency 15435.5 kHz(??).
Then it is something else but not CRI. Their carrier is exactly on 15440 kHz.
Roland
Hi Roland,
Sorry my mistake. The 15435.5 kHz carrier came from my wireless network (Linksys 2.4 GHz), but the interference signal was exactly 15435.0 kHz as you can see from the spectrum, too. The language sound like Chinese language? Anyway I did not detect any CRI carrier wave at 15440 kHz.
At the moment all short wave is dead! I can't here anything from Sines. Only weak signals at 9 and 6 MHz bands.
Seppo
Not even trace of radio signal due to extreme space weather conditions.
Hi!
Very weak signal, average SNR 9 dB, audio 18% at 11:19 - 12:11 UTC
Seppo
Hi Seppo,
Thanks to your post I noticed that I have also the carrier from my 3Com wireless gateway (at 15435.12 kHz)
Originally posted by hsseppo
... the interference signal was exactly 15435.0 kHz as you can see from the spectrum, too. The language sound like Chinese language? Anyway I did not detect any CRI carrier wave at 15440 kHz
Hi Seppo,
I must admit that I only know about the interference situation on this frequency at an earlier time during the day, because in the afternoon, I usually listen only on 7320 kHz, if at all. Perhaps CRI changes frequency during the course of the day. I am so sure that it was CRI on 15440 kHz, because I could hear their "cri.com" advertisment several times during their chinese transmission once when Sines was down. Owdjim also reported CRI right on 15440 once. But they may have changed frequency since then as well.
Roland
Not so bad from 09:00 to 11:00 taking into account the propagation conditions.
Hi!
Yes, Sines seems to be strong again. I have only 25 minutes 8:51 - 9:16 UTC (99.9%), then I switched 17700 kHz.
Seppo
Hi all,
perfect results today, see attachment
73, Simone
today's propagation conditions: perfect reception till 9:39 UTC, then no reception at all.
Hi !
Here in Helsinki it was much worse.
Seppo
Hi all,
dieverse results this morning, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi,
Today reception is back to normal, at least on this QRG.
Hi!
Also in Helsinki the reception of Sines back to normal, strong and stable signal.
Seppo
Hi all,
back to normal this morning, strong and stable signal, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi,
Still "strange" propagation, for instance I don't receive any DRM station (at 11 UTC) on 6, 7 or 13 MHz.
Listening time: 09:25 until 10:48 UTC.
Result: 87%.
Hi all,
good results this morning, better S/N after changing the modification of the receiver as already mentioned, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi,
here is a short log.
It is always strange to see how deep the signal from Sines may momentarily fade.
I am using a receiver that has only a very limited AGC range up to the point ahead of the IF filter, where the 12 kHz downmixer is connected. Thus I can easily get fading depths of 50 dB at the soundcard. Taking the AGC action into account, fading will be even deeper on the RF side.
Roland
Hi,
I'm glad that DRM in not affected by the present snow storm...
Listening time: 11:45 - 12:46 UTC.
Result: 99.9 %
Hi all,
This morning results. One-hour listening.
Hi All
Some signals are starting to progate down to this part of the world again.
Cheers, Chris
Hi All
Some signals are starting to progate down to this part of the world again.
Cheers, Chris
Hi all,
good results as usual, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi,
an extremely strong signal here. I had to turn down all controls to their minimum settings since the AGC of my ATS-803A does not have a large range of attenuation in front of the IF amplifier which I don't use.
Roland
Hi all
I join my reception report. Last 85 minutes of today's program.
Hi,
My report today is 6 hours long. At 08:01 - 13:56 UTC. Good reception, correctly decoded audio 99.8%. DRM is really working well! I just wish there were more DRM stations.
Seppo
radiomann
28-11-2004, 13:42
My 1 hour log, always seems a stable signal.
Hi DRMs,
...good conditions also on 15440 kHz.
Michael
Hi,
Two hours + today, with variatians in SNR from 16 to 27 dB. Result: 90%.
Hi all,
some periods with interferences, also deep fading sometimes, and a delayed start, see attachment
73, Simone
Hi,
I can confirm rapid and deep fading of >40 dB but signal was also very strong for most of the time.
Roland
Hi All
I couldn't receive 17700 or 17710 kHz from Sines last night, but 15440 kHz was coming in very well, once China left the frequency.
Cheers, Chris
Hi,
The ever reliable 15440 was suffering today from deep fading. Look at 10:44 UTC!
Listening time: 09:05 - 11:00 UTC.
Result: 84 %.
Perfect reception for 2 hours. However no service label today. Problem of Dream Software or DW??
Daniel
Hi,
Once again almost perfect reception for 74 minutes!
Time: 10:16 - 11:30 UTC. Result: 97%.
Hi all,
good results, a few dropouts due to deep fading, see attachment
73, Simone
I could hear it on the AM demod, flipped backand forth between G5RV and the vertical 2m J-pole but caught only a little DRM audio.
73, Tom
Perfect reception during 3.5h this morning
73
Daniel
Hi all,
great results all day, see 6 hours log attached
73, Simone
Hi,
not bad, I noticed one short audible dropout during fading. As always on signals from Sines, there were large differences between minimum and maximum signal. For unattended logging without being able to adjust RF gain, one would need a more wide-range AGC than I have.
Roland
Hi,
'HF Communications Warning', is the message from IPS today, despite that I had good reception of DW from Sines. That is until the transmitter left the air at 12:40 UTC? Prior to this there was some other problems, because at one time the spoken word was repeated several times.
Rene Schmitz
20-01-2005, 19:44
Hi all,
this is how it looked from 9:05 to 9.37. Perfect!
Cheers,
René
Hi,
I noticed a new label from DW today: 'DW-DRM'. At a later stage it has changed to 'audio service'.
But reception was no good today.
Time: 10:30 - 11:15 utc. Result CDA: 62%.
chemclouds
01-02-2005, 14:10
DW Radio 15440
Hello,
I thought I would try to receive you on this frequency, however, I could not decode any audio.
Here is a shot of DRMSWR captured at 13:50. Signal trength was around 7 db.
Carl
Hi all,
problems because of the co-channel interference from 0900, after a few days without a label today the label read "Deutsche Welle", see attachment
73, Simone
Today extremly strong signal. I had to switch the Preamp off (normally always on) and still signal was S9 and S9+20 dB! Audio Dropouts were caused by playing around with AGC/Preamp/Attenuator at my receiver
73
Daniel
tradio99
10-02-2005, 19:33
my results today - from 11.26 till 14.00 UTC - CDA 45.7%
Strong signal as usual
73
Daniel
Hi all,
perfect this morning, see attachment
73, Simone
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