DRM tests from FEBC Saipan

[K4ERO]

Starting on 4/15/09 FEBC, Saipan hopes to be testing DRM on 11650 KHz at 0900 to 1000 UT. Beaming 341 degrees, (Japan, Korea, Russia, and Northern Europe) Daylight absorption will limit signals west of middle Russia, but any reports from anywhere are welcome. This is early evening Japan time. Thanks for any and all reports, via this forum and to kfbseng@febc.org. We have permission to test for three weeks. Signals may not be on every night, but we hope to be on at least 10 or more nights. Later tests to be announced towards China.

John Stanley, Visiting Engineer, FEBC, Saipan

[Siber]

Dear John
I duplicated your message on the Russian sites dxing.ru and radioscanner.ru
Yours faithfully,
Vladimir

[K4ERO]

All the equipment seems to be working well. We should be on as scheduled. Various modes will be tried. Thanks to all who listen and pass on the word.

[K4ERO]

Transmitter is behaving well.

De K4ERO, FEBC, Saipan

[FritzWue]

Signal is coming through! :D
But there is AM on 11645 kHz, so too much interference
for decoding audio at my location in northwestern Germany.

[Mitsuru Ito]

hi all
also very strong interfwer signal in Japan.
And there were noises because local time was 18hrs.
But,The signal was 30dB orver s9 at IC-R75r.
if i did not change ATT e.t.c.
there were noaudio drop out.
DE JA2QDX M.Ito

[FritzWue]

I tried to improve the setup here, so the report ist split into two parts:

[K4ERO]

Thanks for encouraging first reports. Based on request from Japan we will run Parametric Stereo tomorrow night. For FritzWue, we could try a brief test using 4.5 KHz mode on USB, if we know you are there. LSB is interfered with as your plots clearly show. Many thanks to all.

[FritzWue]

...some more screenshots.
John, I was in my home office today but most time I'm out at 11:00am here, sri.

[Siber]

In the middle of Russia in Irkutsk I receive the signal by telescopic whip by
Hyundai 1613+ heterodine 465KHz with not bad sound quality. Tomorrow I'll try to do the DRMcalc

[PP5AZF-Ataliba]

Parabéns pelos testes da rádio FEBC Saipan.
Gostaria de sugerir que façam testes em Parametric Stereo, modo A, 18 kbps. Estas configurações são utilizadas pela rádio CVC 17.640 Khz e resultaram em excelentes qualidade de áudio estéreo e de decodificação de sinal.
Eu acredito que poderão obter maiores informações diretamente com o engenheiro Mathias Svensson <mathias@cvclavoz.cl>

Translation portuguese > english: "google"

Congratulations for testing of radio FEBC Saipan.
I would suggest making tests in Parametric Stereo, mode A, 18 kbps. These settings are used by radio CVC 17640 kHz and resulted in excellent quality stereo audio signal and decoding.
I believe you can get more information directly with the engineer Mathias Svensson <mathias@cvclavoz.cl>

[K4ERO]

Tonight at 0900-1000UT 11650 we will use Mode B, 10 KHz, 4/4/64 QAM, EEP, high, AAC 24 Ks, parametric stereo. Should sound better than tests on Wednesday.

[drmdab]

Nothing here... :(

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

3 AM carriers only....

[Siber]

About nothing too...

[K4ERO]

Thanks to all who participated tonight.. We tried mode B 5 KHz for a few minutes at the end. Sorry it took a few tries to get it right. See you all tomorrow. -John

[K4ERO]

Thanks for all who participated tonight. We tried mode B 5 Khz during the last 5 minutes for those who have QRM on 11645. Sorrry it took us several tries to get it right. We plan be on again tomorrow night.

[Mitsuru Ito]

hi all
this is lof file of today.
somthing happen at ending
DE JA2QDX M.Ito

[Mitsuru Ito]

I took photo at 09:57 utc
I thinkk that time was 5KHz B.W.
SNR was 24dB while B.W. was 5KHZ.
DE JA2QDX M.Ito

[Mitsuru Ito]

I felt very weak QRM on 11645KHz in Japan.
DE JA2QDX M.Ito

[FritzWue]

Better here with optimized F5k settings. :)
For the last 15 minutes there was this 20 kHz wide buzzing noise on frequency we've heard before on other frequencies, somebody reported it to be from Cyprus?
So unfortunately I had no chance in 5 kHz mode. :mad:
Signal is stronger at the beginning here, some bits of audio were coming through then, sound was good!
Sometimes even the clock was readable. :D

[FritzWue]

Two zipped mp3 audio files:
1: FEBC Easy Listening Music :)
2: humming interference recorded in AM :mad:

[fibber]

Kinda weak, no decode. Unattended log attached.

[simone]

Similar results here.
Simone

[K4ERO]

Tonight we will try some 5 KHz wide modes. This should allow better reception where the station on 11645 is taking out half of our signal. We don't expect great audio quality, but hopefully there will be some audio decode where it would not be possible otherwise. We accidentally had a mono source yesterday, so using parametric stereo didn't buy anything. We are making a new tape that is stereo and will use it with parametric stereo on Saturday.

[K4ERO]

We plan to use
Mode B, 5 Khz, 64 QAM from 0900 to 0920 UT
Mode A, 5 KHz, 16 QAM from 0920 to 0940 UT
Mode B, 5 KHz, 64 QAM from 0940 to 0959 UT
These all have similar bitrate/audio quality, but we want to see which one is the most reliable.

[drmdab]

I can see the signal here in Kiel, Germany. The date-LED goes green often but no label decoding etc. AM QRM is much too strong.

Hope to hear more from Saipan soon.

[FritzWue]

Preliminary result, more details later:

[Siber]

Today there where very big local noices. But sometimes I heard the music:)
I make some experiments from 20 till 22 min. The last 10 min the local noices have increased.

[Mitsuru Ito]

Hi all
The singal was strongest today.
DE JA2QDX M.Ito

[FritzWue]

Still big problems with the Voice of Greece to europe on 11645 kHz.
The signal sometimes is totally overmodulated spreading a wide noise floor.
During the first 20 min period I did not get much, see panadapter screenshots.
The second 20 minutes were best here, A-16QAM worked best here.
The interference got a little weaker later,
so the third 20 min part was also with some (but less) audio.
You can best see the difference in my DREAM screenshot at 09:48 UTC,
see time in line above graphics.

[Siber]

I have a small remark
Sounding of a voice, but not music, would be with effect which I has named "empty barrel effect"

[FritzWue]

I would say it is more like a low frequency mumbling in the background.
I tested in my monitor speakers how much I could compress the audio
without noticing a substantial difference to the original.
Attached are two zipped 24 kbps mono mp3 files
recorded during part 2 with mode A 16 QAM at 8.28 kbps:

[FritzWue]

Again two zipped 24 kbps mono mp3 recordings, this time in mode B 64QAM at 9.92 kbps.
Sounds a little better but gave less decoding over the 20 min period:

[K4ERO]

Gentlemen, Thanks much for the very helpful comments. Several tentative conclusions. Mode A shows promise. 5 KHz has some advantage for a QRM situation. Low bitrate gives poor voice quality. As to low bitrate, the early generation source coder being used for these tests is not able to use all options that will be available in a later generation that allows one to select a more optimum coding scheme for voice. The one used now is for music and is quite poor for voice with low bitrates. We are learning a great deal thanks to feedback like yours. - John

[K4ERO]

Tonight we hoped to try Stereo again, with a stereo audio file but the stereo file is not available. So, we will again use the 5 KHz wide mode. We will try both modes A and B, based on good results with mode A last night. Perhaps tomorrow with the stereo.

[FritzWue]

Propagation is good today, got RNZI's label on 7285 kHz this morning.
Reception today was the best so far. :)
More details later.

[drmdab]

Something visible sometimes... but no label and no flashing synch-LED... :(

[Sixten]

Hi all.

Nice to hear DRM from USA good signal stringth but strong splatter from 11645.

[Mitsuru Ito]

hi all
This is log file of today.
There were noise around 11650KHz.
So. SNR was bit lower than yesterday.
DE J2QDX M.Ito

[Siber]

My today's result is not much better then yesterday's :)
The interesting effect was observed. After switching in the mode 64QAM FAC SNR has decreased to 5-9 dB and MSC SNR has raised up to 12-15 dB. But decoding finished.

[FritzWue]

The signal was very stable around S7 most of the time and independent of the modulation mode I would have a near 100% result without interference.
Even in usb 5 kHz mode the reception still depends on what is happening on the Voice of Greece on 11645 kHz.
It is impossible to evaluate differences between mode A and B under these conditions.
To me the cut between audio and no audio was around 15 dB SNR for mode A and around 18 dB SNR for mode B.
Still a very good result today considering the distance and planned target area. :)
What antennna and power are in use?

[K4ERO]

Thanks for the good information. Exciting to see such reception in Sweden and Germany. Of course, Japan very good also. We switched modes at 0920, A to B and QAM mode at 0940. At 0948 the DRM exciter "glitched" for about a minute, but then recovered. We may try a slight beam heading change later to help in Irkutsk. We are using 20 KW and a TCI 611 4x4 curtain. May also try to raise the power to 30 Kw. Thanks again to all and good night till tomorrow. -John

[drmdab]

beam heading change later to help in Irkutsk
And another to help here, correct? :D
Do you think you can change the frequency in the coming weeks? I guess there are no plans for a regulare transmission yet, are there?

[Siber]

drmdab,
I think it is necessary to understand as that the angle of the beam to horizon can be changed.
In the first day of testing I received the signal by the telescopic antenna with high quality. Next day they changed the angle.

[df9rb]

Only a little bit of audio here in South East Germany.

Bernd, DF9RB

[K4ERO]

Greetings. Tonight we will again run 5 KHz BW in various configurations.
Our studio man is ill and hasn't made the new stereo program yet. We hope to run stereo tomorrow with 10 KHz BW. Fresh music also!

[FritzWue]

Looks like you had some TX problem tonight. :o
Different modes and bitrates tested, first result here, more later:

[K4ERO]

Sorry for the transmitter problem. That is why we have test transmissions to see how it all works, as well as to see who is listening and how well it is received.

[Owdjim]

Only a faint signal noted here in New Zealand. No chance of any audio
decoding at any time, and only got the id once briefly.

Cheers, Chris

[Sixten]

Hi all.

Very bad propagation today and BIG splatter from AM -5Khz .

I can no give more detail for bad propagtion. Decorded Audio 56% ok.


Pse QSY 5Khz up !!!!

[FritzWue]

The problem is that under interference condition the plot programs tell only half of the truth when you change modes and bitrates.
DRMcalc and DRM-Log Plotter tell nothing about the momentary interference situation, so it is not advisable to just rate the decoding of a certain mode and bitrate over the time period it was in use.
If you check my last two DREAM screenshots before and after the X marking for the mode switching, you see a very different interference scenario.
Only a closer look at what SNR audio was decoded tells you
that A 16QAM worked better than B 64QAM.

[Siber]

There are todays results

[K4ERO]

Thanks to all for the good reports. Good night till tomorrow. -John

[Mitsuru Ito]

hi all
there are noises today too.
I checked noise while signal was not there.
It was 2 to 3 at s metter of my IC-R75.
So SNR was lowwer than yesterday again.
DE JA2QDX M.Ito

[K4ERO]

Greetings all. We plan to return to the 10 Khz wide mode tonight and to run parametric stereo using our new audio file. We will try a couple of different settings, and will be interested in not only reliability and S/N but also your impression of the audio quality. If you have headphones, try them for the full effect. We will keep the bitrates moderate to allow for a more robust signal.
Happy listening! -John

[Owdjim]

No signs at all of DRM on 11650 kHz here in NZ tonight. If the tx was on it wasn't propagating this way today.

Cheers, Chris

[Mitsuru Ito]

hi all
Thsi log of today.
There were noises today-
around 30 to 45min.
The signal was coming with good audio.
I felt that position of sound was-
moving left and right.
DE JA2QDXM.Ito

[Siber]

Hi all.
Every day at 9-50 UTC joins the powerful station which signal does not suppress completely in the working spectrum. Therefore receiving becomes not possible.
Thanks for advice to listen to music in headphones. Very good stereoeffect ;)
Vladimir

[K4ERO]

Sorry there was no audio for 5 minutes at the start. My mistake. Thanks for the report. -John

[Digger]

Nice to see KFBS Saipan on the screen here. Unfortunately, the Greek (I believe) station -5 kHz ruined the decoding completely here. I noted two modes, first B with 17.46 kbps and later A with 22.14 kbps. My temporary receiver set-up here is a bit too simple for this kind of DX-ing.

But it brought back the memories from the mid-80:s of knocking at the door to the transmitter building, only to see a shy guy behind the curtain who wouldn't open the door... That was in the KYOI days...

[drmdab]

No comment. You know what that means. :)

[FritzWue]

That was in the KYOI days...

KYOI was located at the southwestern end of Saipan.

There are two stations visible on Saipan in Google Earth:
15° 7'14.72"N145°41'31.92"E
15°16'14.70"N145°47'53.38"E

John, is KFBS in the north or in the south of Saipan?

Sorry, no report today from my side, had some work to do.
See my DRM car radio logs for 9780 and 6085 kHz.

[K4ERO]

KFBS is the station on the north of the island. Mostly covered by clouds on Google maps. Sorry the wide band stereo signal didn't make it to Europe. If we were to target Europe we would need a different frequency. Here on the east coast of Asia, 11640 to 11660 is wonderfully clear. All IBB RMS scans show nothing but a wide gap, unless we are there. Russian follows the DRM test in Analog. KFBS used to start earlier so this is "our" frequency over here.

[K4ERO]

We will continue the tests on 11650 at 0900-1000 even though we are also starting tests on 11580 at 0800-1000 to the west. Listeners in Japan should hear the earlier tests, even though considerably weaker. Because of retuning and changing antennas there may some skips in the program(s) around 0900.
I am starting new thread to cover the new tests on 11580, but you may use either it or this one to comment. -John

[Siber]

The problem is that under interference condition the plot programs tell only half of the truth when you change modes and bitrates.
DRMcalc and DRM-Log Plotter tell nothing about the momentary interference situation, so it is not advisable to just rate the decoding of a certain mode and bitrate over the time period it was in use.

I agree with FritzWue that DRMcalc and DRM-Log Plotter give incomplete information. The most informative could be records of audio file of the DRM signal which then experimenters could decode by Dream program.
If you could analyse my signal that would see that its level high enough but very bad Impulse Response

[FritzWue]

No Voice of Greece today, so better reception than expected! :D

[Mitsuru Ito]

hi all
thsi si log file of today.
I have been using-20dB att.
Because there was strong signal of-
CRI on 11610KHz.
But the signal gave good audio.
I will up audio specrum of four seasons of Vivaldi.
DE JA2QDX M.Ito

[FritzWue]

The most informative could be records of audio file of the DRM signal which then experimenters could decode by Dream program.
Well said, so here are two zipped 96kbps stereo mp3 samples:

[Siber]

Well said, so here are two zipped 96kbps stereo mp3 samples:
No! I said about recording (sample) of DRM spectrum!

[FritzWue]

No! I said about recording of DRM spectrum!
Vladimir, you are right, sorry, I misunderstood.
With my SDR I can even record the true rf spectrum to a file, would be even better.:D
Unfortunately we can only attach up to 100kB files here, so no way to do it here.:o

[Siber]

to FritzWue
Sorry. I badly know professional terminology on this theme. Therefore my statements can be understood differently.

[andimik]

I found a picture on http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Saipan.jpg

If the photo shows the Northern part of the island, it seems that the site it visible?

Map is on http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/topo/pacific_islands/txu-oclc-0607971266-saipan.jpg

[FritzWue]

Seems to be there:

[PP5AZF-Ataliba]

Vladimir, you are right, sorry, I misunderstood.
With my SDR I can even record the true rf spectrum to a file, would be even better.:D
Unfortunately we can only attach up to 100kB files here, so no way to do it here.:o

Faça como eu, coloque os arquivos maiores que 100 KB em algum site que permita arquivos grandes e coloque o link aqui no forum.
www.turismocatarinense.tur.br/drm

Translation portuguese > english "google"
Tip: Do as I place the files larger than 100 KB on a site that allows large files and put the link here in forum.
www.turismocatarinense.tur.br/drm

[K4ERO]

I found a picture on http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Saipan.jpg

If the photo shows the Northern part of the island, it seems that the site it visible?

Map is on http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/topo/pacific_islands/txu-oclc-0607971266-saipan.jpg

Yes, the photo shows the towers, in the extreme left top end of the island. On the topo map, the towers are just below the word "laderan" I live in the house just above the a in "Kannat."

[K4ERO]

We will repeat the test on 11580 to China followed by 11650 to Japan, Russia, etc. We will Use mode B only to China, but both A and B to Japan. -John

[Siber]

Bad results

[Mitsuru Ito]

hi all
good condtion today.
2nd data is data of today.
DE JA2QDX M.Ito

[K4ERO]

Sadly, today will be the last day of testing on 11650 from 0900-1000UT. We will continue to test on 11580 from 0800 -0900UT to the west for several more days. We have had good reports on that frequency from Japan, so perhaps our faithful monitors can hear us there for a few more days. Many thanks to all and sorry we cannot continue longer. Perhaps one day this will become a regular program. -John

[Siber]

At any experiment the negative result is too result

[Owdjim]

Hi

The 11650 kHz broadcasts haven't made it to NZ strong enough to decode.
Not suprising really I guess. I've seen signs of the DRM signal, but no decoding.

I haven't had a chance to try for the 11580 kHz ones, the reason being that
it's been dinner time here and my decoding PC has been taken over to play background music for diners!

How much longer are those tests going to be on-air for?

Now, if you could provide DRM dinner music that would be perfect ;)

Cheers, Chris

[Mitsuru Ito]

hi all
I was late for raceiving on 11580KHz.
So log is onnly this frequency.
the condtion was as god as yesterday.
DE JA2QDXM.Ito

[Digger]

Greece is just too splattery 5 kHz down... :mad:
Otherwise the signal is quite strong at times.

[K4ERO]

Many thanks to all who have reported on the transmission on 11650. We have now terminated that frequency. We will continue a few more days on 11580 between 0800-0900UT beaming west.