3930 kHz/ 3970/ 3950 kHz KRTPC

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

After the switch-off of the TDF-RFI DRM TX on 5865 kHz a DRM signal appeared on 5870 kHz, "KRTPC", Russian (?) speaking.
Is this a new DRM transmission ?

[drmdab]

Interesting catch. Found this post in a Finnish mailing list (http://groups.google.com/group/sfnet.harrastus.radio.dx-kuuntelu/browse_thread/thread/54b01a3fd9eb1bc5). Looks like it's a radio station (?) from Ukraine: http://www.krtpc.kiev.ua/index.htm

Hope to see and hear them this evening on my receiver as well.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

Tonight I received this TX on 3930 kHz. Still on the air...

[drmdab]

Indeed, it's on the air. Only some bursts of audio...

@simone: Maybe you could move this thread to the log-section as this is a new broadcaster?!

[sveron]

Hi,

It seems that it's written "Kievska Filia Konzerny PPT" - the Kiev-based subsidiary of the RRT (the national transmitter network owner in Ukraine, according to the WRTH). The frequency list they seem to broadcast for both public and private broadcasters corresponds to the ones mentionned for Kiev in the WRTH too.

Stephane

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

I detected "KRTPC" on 3930 kHz now on the air (16:00). I will post a log later.

Log added.
The signal was weak, just a bit over 0 meter with fading, low SNR and telephone sound quality.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

I used the inside loop tonight. Better results.

EDIT 00:45, still on the air...

[FritzWue]

There is a new one in russian:

[FritzWue]

Some more info, they are transmitting some FM station.
http://www.krtpc.kiev.ua/

[mitajohn]

@ Simone and all,

For 3 days now I am monitoring the transmissions of "KRTPC". I don't known if these are regular or test transmissions. I (we ?) don't know the TX site or even the target area etc...but I suggest you to open a new thread on "Reception Results - Recent Posts" and move/merge there all the relevant posts. Thanks.

[FritzWue]

Hi John,
sorry for doubling.
Did a search for 3930 and found nothing...but we have a very good admin! :)
Signal was very weak this early evening:

[Digger]

Here in Switzerland at 17:25 UTC KRTPC on 3930 kHz produces about +5 dBuV into my RX, 1-8 dB SNR, so all I get is the Label and not much else. I'll post a log later. Further, the transmission was hampered by intermittent talking in SSB in the channel plus occasional static noise blanking out the DRM signal.

[simone]

A weak signal whenever I tried, typica results attached from tonight.
Simone

[tradio99]

Can somebody upload audio of received station on 3930 kHz? I suppose that it is not Ukraine, but Russia - presumably from Krasnodar. Audio sample I got last Saturday consists of 1-2 seconds portions, but with a big probability it is 24 hours russian news channel "Vesti FM"
KRTPC - 1 st letter of this abbreviation may be type of region in Russia " Kray"
in European part they have 2 these abbreviations for national network -in Krasnodar and Stavropol, please look at the link below
http://www.rtrn.ru/coverage.asp?view=3273
numbers 13 and 23 for the south of Russia (Юг России)
and they made in Krasnodar some DRM tests and preparations last year
http://www.rtrs.ru/projects.asp?view=19812

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

Weak signal + fading + static + local noise and here's a 70 mins result.


@ tradio99, may be your are right. They announce Vesti FM and something like Kray....

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

Here's a mp3.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

A much better result this time.

[tradio99]

yes, John, it is "Vesti FM" channel from Russia
in audio you hear name of program - "Avtovesti", of radiostation - "Vesti FM" and date - "10th of February"

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

I left it to record unattended for about 14 hours. From the plot it seems that the "best" results are between 01:40 - 02:40. Too much static/noise + fading and sometimes strong QRM make the signal very unstable.

[Digger]

Between SSB QRM, utility rubbish and QRN there was not much to see this evening. :rolleyes:

[Sixten]

Hi all.

Low bad DX on DRM !!!!:) :)

[Digger]

There is still something going on on this frequency. I tried mailing to a couple of addresses but I have not yet got any response.

[tradio99]

reliable, but unofficial source informed me that this is test transmission from Krasnodar, Russia - power 100 W

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

I left it recording for 8 hours just from curiosity... it isn't worth the while. The static is very strong to allow, even for a while, a decent result.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

Searching the net I found out this : http://74.125.79.132/translate_c?hl=el&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://rtrs.ru/projects.asp%3Fview%3D19812&usg=ALkJrhgeR3nhx9joyEnak6m7e0LUr4BxYQ
which gives some light to the transmissions of KRTPC.


By the way, KRTPC stands for:

К- Краснодарский K-Krasnodar
R-радио R-radio
Т-теле T-TV
З-передающий H-transfers
С-центр From Center
вот так-то: DRM из Краснодарского края That's it: DRM from Krasnodar Krai

EDIT: The source of the above explanation (google translated) of what KRTPC stands for, found in the forum :"RADIOSCANNER.RU". The google English translated page is the same as in the 2nd link in post #14 by tradio99.
Sorry for any caused inconvenience.

[FritzWue]

...and here is the TX: :)
45°28'20.38"N 40° 6'10.94"E

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

Bad results for 1h.

[FritzWue]

Unattended overnight log, very bad audio quality, even worse than Kuwait! :mad:

[Brendan1]

Hi John, thanks for the page with translation. Sounds like they are using NVIS (Near Vertical Incidence Skywave) antennas, since they describe how they intend to have regional broadcasts with "zenith" antennas for the Winter Olympics in 2014. It may also explain why signal levels have been so low.

[Digger]

...and here is the TX: :)
45°28'20.38"N 40° 6'10.94"E


According to VOACAP Krasnodar is 45° 24' 5.99" N / 38° 9' 30.13"E :confused:

[FritzWue]

Quote:
According to VOACAP Krasnodar is 45° 24' 5.99" N / 38° 9' 30.13"E

Hi Terje,
also found that first in Google Earth, but the antennas there do not fit for 75m broadcast.
After a little search I found it is this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_(radio_navigation)

[Digger]

OK, we don't know for sure where this TX is, but just after 2210 blackfoots (?) in USB (upper side band) in SSB speaking French ruined all decoding. :rolleyes:

[Digger]

A weak signal interrupted by SSB which may be something else than blackfoots, as the SSB seemed to use some kind of encryption. The RX was left on over night and the "best" part is enclosed. The distance and bearings should be taken wih a pinch of salt.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

KRTPC is back on 3970 kHz. I attached a bad result for 30 mins.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

A bad result from KRTPC, although the signal was about 40 dBuV the IR was non-existent, almost no decoding.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

Another result for 44 mins until the signal gone, a good one.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

A result for 30 mins tonight. Not bad.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

An overnight unattended log. Low BR (8.2 kbps) and mode C. Good results until 02:15, then decoding problems due to bad propagation or QRM (?).

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

Another overnight unattended log. Good results between 01:40-02:33.

[Siber]

Krasnodar Radio Television Transmitting(Peredayuschiy) Center:)
I think they use the zenith antenna. But the recepcion results...say another.

[drmdab]

Thanks Siber for the translation of "KRTPC" into plain text.
This station is visible right now on 3970 kHz but I can decode Issoudun (RFI) on 3965 only. The signal from France is much stronger here than the Russian one.

[tradio99]

I think, that the 1 st letter of this abbreviation may be type of region in Russia - "Kray", in a case of Krasnodar in fact it must be double "K" KKRTPC or Krasnodar KRTPC, for example transmission center in Stavropol has the same abbreviation KRTPC, please look at the link below
in European part there are 2 these abbreviations for national network -in Krasnodar and Stavropol,
http://www.rtrn.ru/coverage.asp?view=3273
numbers 13 and 23 of the map

[Siber]

The information I had found on the site http://www.rtrs.ru/projects.asp?view=19812

The main theme is :

On September, 9th, 2008 during carrying out of VII international Investment Forum Sochi-2008 the project “ The State transferring network of short-wave broadcasting of Krasnodar territory in digital format DRM with use of the aerial of zenith radiation.” has been presented to Minister of Communications. The project developed by experts of the Krasnodar regional radiotelevision transmitting center. The represented project is developed within the limits of preparation of offers Krasnodar KRTPC to the System Project of modernization and development of a telecommunication and radiotelevision infrastructure of Krasnodar territory to carrying out of Winter Olympic Games of 2014 in Sochi.

The represented project grows out of integration of a strongly forgotten old and the most hi-tech new, namely: - a long-wave part of a short-wave wave band (75- 120m) in 20 - 30th years of the last century were widely used for region broadcastings with radius of scope up to 1500 km. Thus as transmitting aerials were used faintly directional and low suspended aerials with significant radiation under greater corners (close to zenith). Development of this way of the organization of broadcasting was braked by low quality of reception; - using of a digital format of broadcasting DRM allows to use all advantages of SW broadcasting at maintenance of high quality of radioreception, commensurable with quality of VHF-FM of broadcasting.

There are performed works on development of technical and working projects “ The short-wave aerial of zenith radiation” (the developer the OKTOD Company, Moscow); -and the works on construction of the aerial are conducted, manufacturing of 24 antenna masts, construction of central and stays bases , etc.;

[Per]

Hi,

My first catch of KRTPC. Stable signal, but SNR just around 6 dB, hence no audio. Time: 17:27 UTC.

[FritzWue]

KRTPC is still on air and interfering with RFI on 3965 kHz.
This is the first time I see two DRM stations jamming each other. :(
RFI has a problem, the signal level was jumping up and down several times.
At 18:00 UTC all was flattened by
http://www.familyradio.com/international/schedules/B01/hungarian_b01.html

[Digger]

Yep, a sure first. And I hope, the last. And then at 1800 UT a Hungarian extreme-splatterer stole the scene completely. Well, RFI was possible to decode despite frequent sneezes from 10 kHz below. :rolleyes:

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

A 90 mins log, the signal was around 40 dBuV with terrible IR. After 18:00 strong QRM started.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

An unattended result for 167 mins.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

A log with mixed results.

[Digger]

Not much to report; on the other hand, my aerial is too short.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

An unattended log for 1H43.

[Digger]

A wee bit of audio, but then the channel impulse response became weird and nothing more was heard.

[FritzWue]

It's a shame!
We don't have to many DRM stations, and now one is already jamming another one! :(

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

An overnight unattended log. It seems that the better results are between 03:30 and 05:00.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

An evening result for 38 mins before the usual QRM start at 16:52. SQ=99.46%, apart from the 3kHz BW sound.

[Digger]

Here is an unattended 7 1/2 hours overnight log. The best bit was around 4 UTC. Pretty horrible sound "quality".

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

An almost perfect result for about 1 H.

[Digger]

Hm, just enough to get the label . . .

[Digger]

Severe splatter from Tai-wan 5 kHz down makes decoding impossible. And now, at 2155 UTC, another AM carrier 5 kHz up is warming up...

[Digger]

What should had been an overnight log was drastically reduced to a quarter of an hour because of a silly mistake of mine... :o

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

Here's an overnight unattended log. Not bad.

[Digger]

Here is another overnight log. Not so good here.
I thought I heard an announcement "Vesti FM" ?

[Digger]

No big deal...

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

1H28 log. Not too bad although the IR was bad.

[Digger]

Just now (0515 UTC) transmitting on 3950 kHz. Log follows later. About 25% CDA until the conditions got bad.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

A result for more than one hour on 3950 kHz.

[FritzWue]

Not much here this morning from the "other" station.
Reception here is best with the wires in dipole configuration while I cannot even see them in vertical T configuration. Looks like they are using a horizontal antenna with high radiation elevation.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

Here is an overnight unattended result. The reception was better with the wire than with the loop.

[Digger]

A log just happened to want to be caught. :p Or what should I say? At 2100 there was a burst of DRM but Taiwan killed it effectively . . .

[Ant-SWL]

Some audio at evening here. An interference Signal started 1856 UTC.
4 Minutes later Radio Taiwan Int. was very strong 5 KHz up.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

A 35 mins log. Low BR, mode B/9 kHz. At 19:00 strong QRM killed DRM.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

A result for 41 mins, then strong co-channel QRM started.

[Digger]

There is no use logging this one overnight.... It is better to save electricity for something better... :rolleyes:

[FritzWue]

The forgotten signal:

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

Better here. The signal was below 30 dBuV with long tailed IR, until QRM started and killed DRM. (The 2nd graph is more detailed).

[FritzWue]

@John:
WOW! :eek:
How is the audio? :rolleyes:

[mitajohn]

@Fritz, telephone sounded (~3kHz BW) but clear...

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

Here is an audio sample.

[FritzWue]

Thanks John,

that's worse than I expected. :o
Some broadcasters not yet understand what quality people expect from a digital transmission. :rolleyes:

[mitajohn]

Hi Fritz,

The wav is better. I attach here the same portion of the wav with better mp3 settings and is a bit better. The compression unfortunately has its effects.
Some broadcasters not yet understand what quality people expect from a digital transmission.
And some also use 20 kbps with 3 kHz BW audio...worse than AM.

[FritzWue]

TERRIBLE! :(
Do we really need to digitize the audio to get this bad quality!?:confused:

[mitajohn]

That's the question...

[FritzWue]

Schuettorf-A31-Gescher
At least I cannot complain about the audio. :rolleyes:

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

A 60 mins log with good results for only 15 mins.

[FritzWue]

KRTPC on 3970 kHz tonight at 10 kbps. :rolleyes:
The audio was worse than telefone! :mad:
Issoudun on 3965 kHz had some TX problems, so the signal was visible for some time.
Later a strong AM station started on 3975 kHz flattening everything. :(

[Digger]

I can see 3970 in DRM around 2110 UTC, but "Taiwan" (from Issoudun?!) 5 kHz down blabbers all over the band. Grrr. :mad:

[Digger]

Today's log on 3970 which was completely drowned by Family Radio in Hungarian in AM on 3.975 MHz from 18 UTC.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

An unattended log for more than 3 hours.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

A result for about one hour. Better results at this hour but very bad IR.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

Much much better results tonight, ~99% decoded audio.

[mitajohn]

Hi all,

The reception turned good 2 hours later than yesterday. Here are results for 56 mins. A change in BR noticed.