View Full Version : BBC & DW Joint Test Transmission
mitajohn
25-11-2008, 07:07
Hi all,
A weak signal in a noisy environment with a chaotic IR gave the attached result.
EDIT: A new thread has been opened for this test, please move the post there.
Thanks.
Post moved, Simone
Hi all,
today, wed and thu BBC & DW will be testing a new joint schedule. The transmission schedule is as follows, please let us know how it works and what you like and don't like:
HF
start end freq Station power Azim Antenna days Prog Mode Audio Source
05:00 07:00 3995 SINES 90 40 HR 1/1/0.50 1234567 BBC B ENEUR
07:00 08:00 6130 SINES 90 45 HR 4/4/0.80 1234567 DW B DW02
07:00 08:00 6195 SKELTON 100 150 HR 2/1/0.50 1234567 DW B DW02
08:00 09:00 9610 SINES 90 45 HR 4/4/0.80 1234567 DW B DW02
08:03 09:00 13810 SINES 90 30 HR 4/4/1.20 1234567 DW B DW02
09:00 10:00 9610 SINES 90 45 HR 4/4/0.80 1234567 DW A DW02
09:00 10:00 13810 SINES 90 30 HR 4/4/1.20 1234567 DW A DW02
10:00 11:00 9545 WOOFFERTON 100 114 HR 2/4/1.00 1234567 DW A DW02
10:00 11:00 13810 SINES 90 30 HR 4/4/1.20 1234567 DW A DW02
11:00 12:00 9545 WOOFFERTON 100 114 HR 2/4/1.00 1234567 DW A DW02
11:00 12:00 13810 SINES 90 30 HR 4/4/1.20 1234567 DW A DW02
12:00 13:00 9545 WOOFFERTON 100 114 HR 2/4/1.00 1234567 DW A DW02
12:00 13:00 13810 SINES 90 30 HR 4/4/1.20 1234567 DW A DW02
13:00 14:00 9545 WOOFFERTON 100 114 HR 2/4/1.00 1234567 DW A DW02
13:00 14:00 13810 SINES 90 30 HR 4/4/1.20 1234567 DW A DW02
14:00 15:00 9545 WOOFFERTON 100 114 HR 2/4/1.00 1234567 BBC A ENEUR
14:00 15:00 13590 SINES 90 30 HR 4/4/1.20 1234567 BBC A ENEUR
15:00 16:00 9545 SKELTON 100 153 HRS4/2/0.60 S12 1234567 BBC A ENEUR
15:00 16:00 13590 SINES 90 30 HR 4/4/1.20 1234567 BBC A ENEUR
16:00 17:00 3995 SKELTON 100 121 HR 1/2/0.30 1234567 BBC B ENEUR
16:00 17:00 5895 KVITSOY 35 190 LPH 1234567 BBC B ENEUR
17:00 18:00 3995 SKELTON 100 121 HR 1/2/0.30 1234567 BBC B ENEUR
18:00 19:00 3995 SKELTON 100 120 HR 1/1/0.30 1234567 DW B DW02
19:00 20:00 3995 SKELTON 100 120 HR 1/1/0.30 1234567 DW B DW02
20:00 21:00 3995 SKELTON 100 120 HR 1/1/0.30 1234567 DW B DW02
21:00 22:00 3995 SKELTON 100 120 HR 1/1/0.30 1234567 DW B DW02
22:00 23:00 3995 SINES 90 40 HR 1/1/0.50 1234567 DW B DW02
MF
start end freq Station power Azim Antenna bit/s days Prog Audio Source
05:00 07:00 1296 ORFORDNESS 35 96 VM 101208 1234567 BBC ENEUR
07:00 17:00 1296 ORFORDNESS 35 96 VM 101208 1234567 off air
17:00 18:00 1296 ORFORDNESS 35 96 VM 101208 1234567 BBC ENEUR
18:00 23:00 1296 ORFORDNESS 35 96 VM 101208 1234567 DW DW02
A bit chaotic Impulse Response on 3995 kHz this morning, but a very good result anyway. According to the schedule above, the entire transmission came from Sines. However, there was a break at 06 UTC and after the break the SNR seemed a little bit lower that during the first hour.
New Label: "BBC & DW Test"
BBC & DW Test on a new (?) frequency - 9610 kHz. Nearly perfect decoding on a clear channel. The log is 50 minutes long.
Hi all.
Perfect clear cannel and very strong signal stringth up to 74dbuV but little instabile propagation . CDA was 99.36% ok. MODE A is very good to my location if Ionospheric layers is ok.
Log is 108min.
BBC & DW Test on 9545 kHz. Perfect reception for 60 minutes here. My National RF-B60 does not provide such a high SNR as the FRG-7700 does, but it works fine anyway.
The second log is taken with the FRG-7700. The log is 70 minutes long and perfect.
Prpoagtion very up and down from Wofferton and so start CRI on 9540 10db over DRM not so fan , listen to dropout.
Log 68min CDA 92% for CRI .
Just two clipboards here from DWT. Woofferton is good but Sines more stable as always. As seen in Sixtens log, reception of 9545kHz had some detoriation here too, about 12UTC, but Sines has remained 100% stable.
It will be interesting to see the results of the DW/BBC cooperation.
Anyway, it seems that Journaline is going to be lost.
Good results on 13590 kHz.
Interesting to see the new label this morning, similar results as usual as transmission parameters were basically the same as before.
Simone
Perfect results with a strong and stable signal.
Simone
Sorry, just a short log for the new 9545 kHz with bad results.
Not too bad just using the DWT/whip antenna, no problems using mode A.
Simone
Some problems after the switching at 0600 (not sure if the second hour was from Sines as scheduled?)
Simone
Almost perfect results from Skelton.
Simone
Perfect freq. and very good propagation.
One interesting detail every day sun go down DRM spectrum krazz and signal stringth go down. In this transmission from S9+40db to S9 under 10min.
So log is 103min.
mitajohn
25-11-2008, 16:24
Hi all,
After the switch from Woofferton to Skelton the signal dropped by 10 to 15 dB,
then two AM QRM started at + and - 5 kHz producing a lot of decoding problems.
Perfect from Sines this afternoon. The drop-outs during the first 10 minutes were caused by me doing some measurements and adjustments on the 450/12 kHz converter.
Almost perfect reception here too. The log is 144 minutes long.
Hi all.
DRM via sky wav on MW is not fan. Very slow selective fading give most mute of audio. :confused:
tradio99
25-11-2008, 21:13
good reception on both frequencies this evening
This transmission was not good at all here with strong AM slap-bang in the middle of the channel.... :(
Not good at all here like most of the time. Strong AM in the middle makes decoding almost impossible. Grrr.
mitajohn
25-11-2008, 22:10
Hi all,
A 6 hour result. After switching at 18:00 there was a drop in the SNR figure.
Strange results using mode A, SDC indicator red all the time, no decoding possible, or maybe a Tx problem?
Simone
Not bad, I can decode some snippets of audio here even in far east Asia.
Also interesting DRM promo-trailer at the end of programme.
Seems there is a problem with the HF MDI feed this morning, looks similar as on 5895 kHz yesterday.
Simone
At first there was nothing, then there was a label, but MSC and SDC were off.
Quite good results with a few droputs last night and this morning, I assume the two sync losses in the first hour last night were caused by work on the CS ;)
Simone
Hi all.
Bad propagtion for DRM from Wofferton to my QTH. And AM on 9540 9550 and 1200UTC start AM on 9545 also !!!Now most i stop log. :eek:
Very strong signal stringth up to 64dbuV.
Two logs, one with "Deutsche Welle" and one with "BBC & DW Test". Both are short, but almost perfect.
A log with some trouble. At the beginning the label read "BBC & DW Test", then there was a break and when it came back the label read "Deutsche Welle". Around 0849 the label changed to "BBC & DW Test" again. The "Test" was on in Mode A; the "DW" was in Mode B.
The reception as such on this frequency was perfect, despite that there was a carrier on the channel for a while, but this did not kill the DRM.
Perfect from both locations, except for the very last minutes, when the propagation suddenly worsened and the signal strength suddenly got weaker.
Hi all.
Log start 1450UTC very good propagtion today from Sines it was 64dbuV ,but under time go signal stringth down for sunset is 1550UTC .Under grey line is signal stringth only 10dbuV, only small drop out this time. 1550 utc up to 54dbuV again. MODE A in this condition is no problem.
Quite good apart from the Tx break.
Simone
Pretty good result tonight for this frequency!
Good results apart from Tx/ datastream problems.
Simone
Not as good as yesterday.
Simone
Quite good results, no problems like yesterday.
Simone
mitajohn
26-11-2008, 18:16
Hi all,
That's a result for 90 mins. A QRM appeared at the left edge of DRM signal affecting only the SNR figure, it lasted until 18:00.
Hi All
9610 kHz good at times here in NZ last night, but mostly poor.
73 Chris
But 9545 kHz was no good at all :-( Too much co-channel QRM I think.
73 Chris
Seems nobody checked the perfect 13810 ...
From 8:49 label and mode changed to Mode A and BBC & DW test
EPG was empty?? AFS has two frequencies.
Good results last night from both sites.
Simone
Perfect from Skelton last night.
mitajohn
27-11-2008, 07:06
Hi all,
Here's an overnight mostly unattended log with the usual morning problems.
Hello all from the USA!
9545KHz yesterday was DFQ all day with 100% decode. No logs attained here due to apathy on my part. I got up too late to try 6130KHz.
This morning (it's 2:50am here!) 6130KHz is DFQ with 100% decode. I'm using my Elektor radio.
We can usually get anything from Sines here on the East Coast pretty reliably. It also seems that Wooferton does well here on 31M too.
Mark (AKA G7LTT)
Hi all.
Last 10min log from Kvitsoy but not condition for DRM from this transmitter to Sweden .
mitajohn
27-11-2008, 08:22
Hi all,
Good signal and a perfect result.
mitajohn
27-11-2008, 10:07
Hi all,
Some TX related problems at start-up, then almost perfect. A very stable signal at about 35 dBuV.
Hi all.
Not so good propagtion from wofferton today and so CRI on 9540 and 9550 !!!
Log 117min.
Steve Martin
27-11-2008, 13:43
Hello. I'm an editor at the BBC and am working with Julian and colleagues on the new BBC & DW channel.
I would be very keen to hear comments, however subjective, about the sound quality, especially in comparison with other DRM services you may receive.
Today we've made the audio stereo (the coder always indicated stereo but now the audio source genuinely is too) and have made what we believe to be improvements to the audio processing.
You may disagree of course so please don't hold back. We'd be really appreciative of your feedback.
With thanks in anticipation,
Steve.
If you are new to this forum and want to register, please have a look here (http://www.drmrx.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1760)
Simone
Did anyone decode the EPG data? Unfortunatly, I did not get any program information using DREAM 1.10.6cvs.
The sound is okay, but not as good as HCJB with it's 14 kbps only!
mitajohn
27-11-2008, 16:12
Hi all,
A 6 hour result. The reception from Woofferton gave almost perfect results in spite of the AM QRM. Right after the switch to Skelton, at 15:00, the signal got weak and affected by the QRM. The overall sound impression was quite good.
Some AM QRM but overall a good result.
Good results again, seemed the second hour was from Skelton, not from Sines as scheduled.
Simone
Other than scheduled transmission was on 5990 kHz, not 5995 kHz, so my Rx was tuned to 5995 kHz which probably explains some dropouts.
Simone
Perfect results this morning.
@drmdab: yes, seemed the EPG is not working yet.
Simone
Hi,
did anyone manage to decode audio on 5895 between 16:00 and 17:00 ? we can't tell until we look more deeply if we have an interference or a system problem on this transmission.
cheers
Julian
Pretty good results again today.
Simone
Hi,
did anyone manage to decode audio on 5895 between 16:00 and 17:00 ? we can't tell until we look more deeply if we have an interference or a system problem on this transmission.
cheers
Julian
Hi Julian,
I hardly got sync today, when I watched it there was a strong AM signal, will add results in a minute.
Simone
edit: Just had a look at the logfile, nothing worth posting today. Donīt think there is a system fault, Tu there seemed to be no MDI input, Wed (http://www.drmrx.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45286&d=1227719346) pretty good results, maybe today bad propagation conditions as it looked similar on the RRI transmission during the past half hour.
Log of 9610 kHz from last night. 9545 kHz not decodable at all.
73 Chris
As usual, when it is propagating to Down Under, 13180 can give some excellent reception at times.
73 Chris
Some weak periods with a weak signal this afternoon.
Simone
A few dropouts last night, but still more reliable than most HF transmissions.
Simone
mitajohn
27-11-2008, 22:28
Hi all,
Here's the tonight's result.
Hi,
Almost perfect reception for 13810 and 13590 here near Strasbourg, 9545 is good during the last hour when it comes from Skelton, but only if the computer/DWT works on batteries to reduce AC noise. 3995 is usually very good too, 1296 is good when the computer is also unplugged.
I almost didn't log, I mostly listened at home during the day, that's all. I heard almost no change in audio for the whole week, but as I recorded today and yesterday I could compare :
- when listening on a hi-fi device (amplified), there is no change in audio, small artefacts, sometimes metallic sound,
- when listening with headphones, the sound in stereo is a bit better as most artefacts sound better with the stereo effect. But I admit that when speak is mixed with a background music like in the advert for "Return to White Horse Village" that can be problematic.
I think of listening in noisy conditions like cooking, in a car with the sound of rain, motor... I know it's extreme, but avoiding such artefacts by providing a better mono audio would be better. As long as there are almost no music programmes, and as long as the stream has to be kept under 17kbps for robust reception, it's better to keep mono. That will help both spoken and few culture / music programmes. Same audio bandwidth or a tiny bit lowered, SBR, but no parametric stereo. That is just my opinion :) What about CELP with such bitrate and SBR ? Would that be so bad for the music/jingles ?
But as to compare with other programmes, BBC/DW audio is better than Radio Vatican on 1611 (15,32 kbps, since they lowered the bitrate the compression is too high for me, even with reduced audio bandwidth), and is much better than Rai Radiouno on 846 (12,46 kbps, at the limits of what SBR can do on AAC). It's better than former DW stereo which I think was more compressed, and worse than former BBC SW mono which had more bitrate (MW is always good by higher bitrate).
Regards, Stephane
I listened with the Roberts MP40 last night, on 3995 kHz the MP40 had a problem, after a few minutes it locked completely- audio decoding was still OK but nothing happened whatever button I pressed, also could not retune the radio. Otherwise good reception with the built-in antennas on HF and MF.
Simone
Good results last night.
Btw there is no audio this morning on the BBC WS transmissions.
Simone
Very good results on the National RF-B60 and the Laptop. There was a break around 06 UTC, but all came from Sines according to the schedule.
These are my logs for the 27th November. I used one antenna and two receivers connected to the office's PC and one to a laptop.
Perfect reception except for the very last minute.
These are my logs for the 27th November. I used one antenna and two receivers, one connected to the office's PC and one to a laptop.
Perfect results on this frequency.
These are my logs for the 27th November. I used one antenna and two receivers, one connected to the office's PC and one to a laptop.
Perfect result.
These are my logs for the 27th November. I used one antenna and two receivers, one connected to the office's PC and one to a laptop.
No problems with interference here, the channel was perfectly clear.
These are my logs for the 27th November. I used one antenna and two receivers, one connected to the office's PC and one to a laptop.
The last hour from Skelton ended in a total loss of the signal on both receivers.
These are my logs for the 27th November. I used one antenna and two receivers, one connected to the office's PC and one to a laptop.
Perfect propagation. It looks like a TX break around 18 UTC, but according to the schedule, all came from Skelton. :confused:
On HF transmissions audio sounded really good despite audio bandwidth was a bit lower than on the regular BBC WS transmissions.
(Also sounded better than on DW transmissions where there are lots of artefacts, donīt know if that was also part of your question).
On MF audio was not good as usual yesterday after your changes, until 1730 audio bandwidth was reduced, using only 11.5 kHz like on HF, seems that was corrected then. In general audio quality on BBC WS has improved a lot lately, I thought it was always strange that audio from the studio (i.e. the news)was a lot worse than reports from far remote places! The only annoying thing that is still there is the crackle during the time signal.
Compared to other transmissions and broadcasters, for me 1296 kHz is one of the most reliable transmissions in the early morning and at night, also audio with music sounds great, maybe only WDR is slightly better.
Concerning the parametric stereo, I would not use it below 21 kbps and on this service as long as there is mostly speech there is no need for to use stereo.
Great configuration with mode A 16QAM which worked well on the HF transmissions. It would be nice to have again an additional dataservice (BWS or Jouranline etc.) on the new service.
Simone
Did anyone decode the EPG data? Unfortunatly, I did not get any program information using DREAM 1.10.6cvs.
Sorry - we didn't manage to get EPG files into the system. We have fixed this problem now.
Julian
Thanks for your great work monitoring these test transmissions, we will be looking your posts and our own monitoring results to optimise the frequency plan before launching the service.
Julian
Hello. I'm an editor at the BBC and am working with Julian and colleagues on the new BBC & DW channel.
I would be very keen to hear comments, however subjective, about the sound quality, especially in comparison with other DRM services you may receive.
For my money I'd like to see an increase of the audio bandwidth. Perhaps you could ditch the P-Stereo in favour of a single wider audio channel instead of 2 skinnier ones.
Program content could also be improved. If the test was indicative of the programming content it is very one sided in favour of DW. Even then they chose to offer the same program repeatedly on all the HF outputs I could hear.
Perhaps an alternating of BBC/DW would be better? Here in the US we can hear Wooferton and Sines very well as probably does the rest of Europe. It's quite possible that listeners would follow any frequency change and therefore would like to hear some variety.
Other than that it was OK.
Mark
If the test was indicative of the programming content it is very one sided in favour of DW.
Mark
Hi Mark,
I think there were a few changes to the schedule after Julianīs post, so there were more hours from BBC WS, especially 1800- 2300 UTC was not solely DW .
Simone
Most importantly, they broadcasted Newshour at 22 CET.
Steve Martin
02-12-2008, 10:22
The launch schedule will be, in UTC:
BBC: 0500-0700
DW: 0700-1400
BBC: 1400-1800
DW: 1800-2100
BBC: 2100-2300
You'll get virtually all the main BBC programmes, including our daily science, documentaries and arts shows, Premier League football at the weekends, The World Today at 0600, Europe Today at 1700, Business Daily at 2230 and our flasgship Newshour programme at 1400 and 2100.
Your feedback on this offer would be very welcome of course. The people working on this project (all seven of us) read this forum.
Steve.
Just received the invitation to the launch at Bush House
Dear Sir,
We would be very happy if you could join us on December 10th for the launch of this new joint initiative which should give our European listeners another way of accessing excellent programming from two major international broadcasters.
Yours sincerely,
Fanny Podworny
Communications & PR Assistant
Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM)
Brendan1
02-12-2008, 17:15
Hi BBC/DW folks!
Any chance of such a service for the Americas? TDF has a great DRM equipped facility in Guyane at Montsinery that covers the hemisphere extraordinarily well, and they'd probably love to sell you some air-time! In past special event broadcasts they reached most of North America easily with both 17 and 15 MHz frequencies, often with near perfect reception. We're starving for DRM broadcasts out here.
Just an idea...and thanks for reading!
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