DRM transmitter SPARK

[simone]

Hi all,
another interesting project at University of Kaiserslautern/ Germany:

DRM transmitter SPARK (http://www.drm-sender.de/)

Simone

[PP5AZF-Ataliba]

Estou procurando SPARK com DRM+ e não estou achando?
Alguém conhece algum outro software gratuito que eu possa fazer alguns testes de transmissão DRM e DRM+ (MW, SW e VHF)?

Translation portuguese - english "Google"

Looking for SPARK with DRM + and I am not thinking?
Does anyone know of any other free software that I can do some testing of transmission DRM and DRM + (MW, SW and VHF)?

[maxpower]

Hi!

I think spark is the only DRM & DRM+ Software Transmitter so far. But I think "only" the DRM version of the software is available. Does anybody got the + Version to test by now?

Apart from that you can use Dream in the Transmitter-Mode, but it can only encode DRM (SW/MW) FAAC.

Google Translation:

Penso que é a única faísca DRM & Software DRM + Transmissor tão longe. Mas penso que "apenas" o DRM versão do software está disponível. Alguém teve a + Versão para testar por agora?

Para além de que você pode utilizar o transmissor no Dream-Mode, mas ela só pode codificar DRM (SW / MW) FAAC.


Stephan

[PP5AZF-Ataliba]

Eu acho que não existe a versão DRM+ do SPARK. Eu soube que foram feitos alguns testes com FM e DRM+ em 87,6 mhz mas não sei qual foi o software utilizado:
"Positive Results From DRM+ Tests on FM - Kaiserslautern, Germany – Positive tests results using the DRM+ standard for a radio station broadcasting on FM have been unveiled at an international symposium today. "
http://www.drm.org/news/detail/news/positive-results-from-drm-tests-on-fm/

Translation portuguese - english "Google"

I think there is the version of DRM + SPARK. I learned that some tests were made with DRM and FM 87.6 MHz + in but I do not know what was the software used:
"Positive Results From DRM + Tests on FM - Kaiserslautern, Germany - Positive tests results using the DRM + standard for a radio station broadcasting on FM have been unveiled at an international symposium today."
http://www.drm.org/news/detail/news/positive-results-from-drm-tests-on-fm/

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

I got a version from the TU Kaiserslautern.

After some tries it works. In this case: receiving AM6155 kHz and converting it by SPARK to a DRM-file.

One has to find 2 DLLs to work with the programm. All information is given in this thread.

Wolfgang Hartmann

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

one has to find the 2 dlls necessary for full function of the programm:

F_aac.dll and mscvr711.dll

Who knows the best sources?

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg and 2 more screens

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

SPARK is able to convert an audiostream (MONO) into a DRM-file or deliver the DRM-stream to a second soundcard output. You are able in a continous demonstration to engage DREAM for decoding from an audio signal from the computer. You can decode an AM-signal by receiving or to use an audio-stream (MONO) for generating DRM.

Very impressive programm. One has to read all the informations very clearly, You get a lot of hints.

There is no possiblity to get a dll by former Coding Technologies now Dolby Germany. Because of that, one is not able to generate a DRM-STEREO-file.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

if the signal at the marked line is to high, You will get as an example a text message but no working audio-modulation in the DRM-stream.

Have a look at: too_High_03

Wolfgang Hartmann

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,


Die AAC+ DLL ist nach Aussage des Autors, Michael Feilen, in keinem Programm enthalten.

Damit sind die Möglichkeiten DRM in Stereo zu generieren, erst einmal auf eine unbestimmte Zukunft verlagert.

Die Möglichkeiten von Mono-Arbeiten ist weiter gegeben.


Wolfgang Hartmann

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

eine lustige Sache, REE direkt zu empfangen, umzusetzen auf WAV-File und durch SoDiRa mit Elektor_USB Empfänger umzusetzen.

REE02 im Appendix zeigt die Empfangssituation im normalen Betrieb.

REE01 die Situation beim Abspielen des WAV-Files.

Im letzten Screen kann sehr schön das Signal um die 0-Position der Soundkarte beobachtet werden. Der Bereich ist mehrere hundert Hertz breit.

Ich grüße, es folgt ein zweiter Teil mit der Möglichkeit die erzielten SNRs abzulesen.

Wolfgang Hartmann

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

hier der zweite Teil mit Angabe der erzielten SNRs. Sie korrespondieren mit den Screens in der ersten Info.

REE sendet original in Mono. Deshalb ist die Übertragung in das WAV-File mit neuer Textmessage möglich.

Die DLL AAC+ bleibt weiter ein Desiderat, wünschenswert, um das Programm voll fahren zu können.


Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

Ergänzung: Empfang mit SoDiRa und Bearbeitung durch SPARK und Ausgabe direkt auf DREAM.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

the version 1.70, I got recently, includes the DRM+ mode.

It includes the modes A, B, C, D and the mode E (DRM+)

Have a look into the appendix.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

some examples of slideshow ability of Spark. Transverted into DREAM and its MM features.

It containes some screens of the programm while installing and running.

Because of the limitation of appendix files, I will send 2 ones and after that 2 more ones.

Wolfgang Hartmann

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

two files in the appendix following

Wolfgang Hartmann

[30CB638E]

Hello!

I'm testing the SPARK software, but I'm blocked in one step:
When you're in the "Multiplexer" window and you want to set the FAAC (audio) settings , the program ask you what bitrate have to have the FACC. Then, I choose 22.14KBit/s, and the program closes.
How I can resolve this problem ?
Do I have to download any extra .dll ? I'm looking to download the F_AAC.dll, but i can't find it.
If I try the line out output, I've to connect it to the microphone input of the transmitter to broadcast in DRM ??

Thanks!

This is my first post in an english forum, so sorry if my English is not very good.

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

You should have all the dlls. I am not so exeprienced, to know every detail.
I would think, stopping of the programm says, the programm is missing some dll.

In Deutsch: Zuerst muß man wohl die DLLS zusammen haben. Manchmal ein schwieriges Problem, wo man sich Rat holen bei anderen Computernutzern.

Wenn das Programm stoppt, scheint ihm eine DLL zu fehlen.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[30CB638E]

Hello!

I've tested the SPARK software in an other computer (with WindowsXP , not with WindowsVista) , and it let me create a FAAC stream (or it seems like that).

When you unzip the program folder, there's (a part of the .exe ) two DLL ; one called fft and the other called faac. Why I have to download the f_aac.dll from internet if already I have it in the SPARK folder ?
Another thing is that you've to register a .dll called msvcr71, but when I try to register it, the system says me that : "msvcr71.dll has been downloaded, but the point of entry DllRegisterServer was not found . It is not possible to register this file."
What can I do ?
When I try the line out output, I've to connect it to the line-in of the transmitter ?

Thanks!!

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

the software seems at the moment not to be running under Vista.

If You got DLLs, use them. If You have a dll on Your machine, You need not to download the same procedure.

I have the same behaviour with msvcr71,dll. The programm works under this circumstance.

The first step should be to work with Spark into a wave file and decode it later with SoDiRa or DREAM.

The last question I do not unterstand quite well. Please could You explain?
Do You receive the stream by DREAM? Do You see the spectrum on a spectrum analyzer programm?

I will try to get an explanation about msvcr71.dll and report, if I get an answer.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

the author, Michael Feilen, has given me a hint for a video giving an example of direct modulation and receiving it with a Morphy Richards receiver directly.

His notes are:

Weiterhin fände ich es nützlich, wenn im DRM-DX forum folgendes Video
verlinkt wäre:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BCYWH6b_N4
Es zeigt die Möglichkeit, mit der kostenlosen Version von Spark und
einer PCI-Karte von National Instruments (ca. 800 EUR) das RF-Signal
direkt per DAC auf bis zu 1,4 MHz zu modulieren (invertiert auf bis zu
2,8 MHz) und so Langwellenfunk ohne weitere Mischvorgänge zu
realisieren. Man benötigt lediglich einen Tiefpass-(bei invertiertem
Signal einen Bandpass)-Filter, einen linearen Verstärker und eine Antenne.

Very interesting video to look at.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

the author of SPARK gave some informations:

1. SPARK was developed by the author within his diploma at
FH-Kaiserslautern. And combined with DRM+ activities there was a
cooperation with TU-Kaiserslautern.

2. DLL f_aac.dll is the old version of faac.dll

3. DLL msvcr71.dll should be copied in the same directory as
Spark-Executable. In this case, there is no need of registration.

4. SPARK is running without problems under
Vista/XP/2000/Linux.

Thanks for Michael Feilen

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

I tested collecting all dlls and Spark.exe in a new directory.

And it works. You need not more than these parts, to get it working.

I recommend, to start SPARK with the Output-WAVe-File option.

In this - first case - You have the simpliest solution to beginn Your tests.

Then You have to read out this file with DREAM with a special parameter or with SoDiRa. This one least, is the simpliest way to hear the result.

You do not need the former type of F_ACC.dll but instead use FACC.dll.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

I wrote a text about starting with SPARK and a second file, which give some screens with comments. Michael Feilen had an eye on it.

It is written in German language.

If You send my a private Message, I will try to send You both DOCs to Your mentioned private EMail adress.

Both have a volumen of rd about 1,5 MByte.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[30CB638E]

Hello!

Thank you very much for the information!!

I will use SPARK for Windows XP, so no problem.

I've downloaded the Sodira software.
I recorded the SPARK stream in a .wav . Then , I play it with the VLC player. Sodira recognise that it's a DRM stream, but it's unable to decode it, and show an error (you can see it in the Attached image).

The DRM stream that SPARK give is a sound. If you select the "line out" output instead of the ".wav file", you'll hear a sound into the speakers.
If I put this sound into the "microphone in" of a SW transmitter, I will be broadcasting DRM ? Or it's not possible to broadcast the sound that the SPARK software give ?

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

I have seen the screen. You should fix the output frequency in SPARK to 12 kHz. In the screen, SoDiRa seems to be not able to decode because mid of signal lies at zero-point between left and right channel.

I think, You used FAAC. In this case give a little text-stream with the file, where You are able to see, wether SoDiRa sees the right WAV-File.

Modulation: I am not shure, wether it is possible to modulate the DRM signal with a just normal transceiver. The DRM-signal is very special signal. It is called DIGITAL but it is a collection of a lot of streams in AM!!!! Round about ca. 200 streams. Because of that, Your transceiver, if it is filtering the microphon signal could limit areas of the DRM-signal, which should pass without changing it.

Maybee there will be some people, they could build a little mixer capable of proper drm-signalling. I did not try till now, maybee I will try it in the next weeks.

Just for the moment, greetings

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[30CB638E]

I have seen the screen. You should fix the output frequency in SPARK to 12 kHz. In the screen, SoDiRa seems to be not able to decode because mid of signal lies at zero-point between left and right channel.

I think, You used FAAC. In this case give a little text-stream with the file, where You are able to see, wether SoDiRa sees the right WAV-File.

I didn't understand this very well... Could you please explain me that again??
I use the faac encoding (the faac.dll that was in the spark.zip).
Furthermore, I can't set the output frequency to 12KHz (you can see it in the attached photo). The IF frequency is already 12KHz.

Modulation: I am not shure, wether it is possible to modulate the DRM signal with a just normal transceiver. The DRM-signal is very special signal. It is called DIGITAL but it is a collection of a lot of streams in AM!!!! Round about ca. 200 streams. Because of that, Your transceiver, if it is filtering the microphon signal could limit areas of the DRM-signal, which should pass without changing it.


I've recently ordered an Himalaya DRM 2009 receiver to Thiecom. I suppose that it will arrive here in Spain in 3 weeks.
I wish tune the SPARK stream using the Himalaya, but if it's not possible... don't worry. :rolleyes:

Thanks again!

[PP5AZF-Ataliba]

Furthermore, I can't set the output frequency to 12KHz (you can see it in the attached photo). The IF frequency is already 12KHz.
Yes! It is possible. Try to change the Robustes "MODE A," OFDM bandwidth 20 kHz, ofdm IF 5,000 Hz (9,416 - 4,583 Hz). Change LPP and HPP protetion for "weak". This will be DRM 20 kHz which may reach 71.96 Kbps.
I use the DREAM for decoding between two computers (TX line out - RX line in) or a single computer (TX/RX internal) enabling "mono mix" or "stereo mix" in "recording control." Sodira not tested enough yet.


Portuguese: (translation Google)
Além disso, eu não posso definir a freqüência de saída a 12KHz (você pode vê-lo na foto anexa). O IF frequência já é 12KHz.
Sim! É possível. Experimente mudar a Robustes para "MODE A", OFDM Bandwidth 20 Khz, ofdm IF 5.000 Hz (9.416 - 4.583 Hz). Mudar LPP e HPP protetion para "weak". Isso será DRM 20 Khz que poderá chegar a 71,96 Kbps.
Eu utilizo o DREAM para decodificação entre dois computadores (line out TX - line in RX) ou um único computador (TX/RX interno) ativando "mono mix" ou "stereo mix" em "recording control". Sodira não testei o suficiente ainda.

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

the difference could be the case of the installation of SoDiRa.

If You choose REAL COMMOn You get another screen as with COMMON IQ.

This could give an explanation.

I give You a screen of the implementation within SoDiRa.

Do You see a change by changing the receiver fixing?

Wolfgang Hartmann

[30CB638E]

Hello!!

Yes! It is possible. Try to change the Robustes "MODE A," OFDM bandwidth 20 kHz, ofdm IF 5,000 Hz (9,416 - 4,583 Hz). Change LPP and HPP protetion for "weak". This will be DRM 20 kHz which may reach 71.96 Kbps.

I've tested that you say, but I still can't set the output to 5KHz. (You can see the attached photo).


If You choose REAL COMMOn You get another screen as with COMMON IQ.

This could give an explanation.

I give You a screen of the implementation within SoDiRa.

Do You see a change by changing the receiver fixing?

Yes, Thanks!! I've changed RealCommon to CommonIQ and the program tunes my DRM stream :)
But I've a problem ; Sodira decodes the DRM audio, but it sounds accelerated. I've tried to change the DRM mode or the bitrate of the FAAC stream, but the sound is still going faster than normal...

Thanks!!

[dadalbinder]

Hello,

as far as I see, SoDiRa decodes in the middle between the I/Q channels at zero position. You should have an if, which should be chosen, to have the whole signal out of zero-position.

I had till now never a faster signal as it should be. New experience for me.

Wolfgang Hartmann

[30CB638E]

Hello!!
I've resolved the audio speeding problem: I've changed the mono .wav input file for a stereo .wav file, and the audio now goes well ;)

But when I play the stream in Sodira, the audio stops, continues, stops.. like when there's not enough signal. It's normal ?

[simone]

Hi 30CB638E,

But when I play the stream in Sodira, the audio stops, continues, stops.. like when there's not enough signal. It's normal ?
What´s your CPU load when this problem occurs?
Simone

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

it is very convenient to transfer an actual AM-station to DRM-WAV-File by Spark.

The size is growing a lot but You are on this way able to send a WAV-File to a station to document the AM-receiving.

It seems to be practical to use WAV-Files, because is the simpliest and best procedure to use the programm quite well.

If You use SOUNDCARD there is the need of a lot of installations for the audio-streams in You computer. After You are on the safe side to manage WAV-Files You could have Your experiences with the Soundcard-option.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

receiving REE Noblejas in DRM-mono, and in DREAM and its SNRs.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[30CB638E]

Hello!
Sorry for the post delay...

What´s your CPU load when this problem occurs?
Simone

As you can see in the attached photo, the CPU load is arround the 20-30%, with peaks of 50%.

Hallo,

it is very convenient to transfer an actual AM-station to DRM-WAV-File by Spark.

The size is growing a lot but You are on this way able to send a WAV-File to a station to document the AM-receiving.

It seems to be practical to use WAV-Files, because is the simpliest and best procedure to use the programm quite well.

If You use SOUNDCARD there is the need of a lot of installations for the audio-streams in You computer. After You are on the safe side to manage WAV-Files You could have Your experiences with the Soundcard-option.

I can transfer an AM Station to a DRM ? How ? Recording the AM audio into a .wav file and then converting it to DRM with Spark ?
There's no problem with .wav files, exept the "stop-play-stop-play..."
I hope that I will receive REE in DRM mode. In AM , I can tune REE with a power of 10/10 using a Sangean ATS909 :cool:

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

I had a view on the screen.

This shows a symmetrical constellation in SoDiRa.

My first question: Which receiver at CONFIG-menu in SoDiRa are You using?

It seems for me, You are using: COMMON REAL as receiver type in SoDiRa?

The zero-position of the sound is dominated by a big noise amount. And the left and right channel are symmetrical identical.

By which receiver are You receiving?
DRT1 , Elektor_USB, Common Real, Common IQ within SoDiRa or
from a receiver at Your desk, generating a wav-file for use in SPARK?

SPARK has the feature, to work from a Mono-file (FAAC) or from a signal from an audio-stream within Your computer, by receiving through SoDiRa.

This as first step.

Please give me the informations.

Wolfgang H.

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

it seems, that there are a lot of problems combined with starting SPARK.

The author gives the recommendation of the following main steps in this order:


1.DRM-Systemkonfiguration = DRM configuration first

2.MSC-Konfiguration (Multiplexer und Services) = following Multiplexer and Services

3.Ausgabegerätekonfiguration = Output constellation

Using this advice will not force You to change parameters later.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

it is very impressive, to see the original SNRs while decoding REE Noblejas 9780 kHZ in DRM-MONO and in the generated WAV-file by SPARK 1.7.0.

Receiving the original transmission gives several SNRs. The quality of the audio stream is optimal but the SNRs could be a lot of varieties.

After taking this output by the normal transmission, one gets extremly better SNRs by the generated WAV-file.

Two screens show the situation.

Receiving and Playing by SoDiRa version 0.063

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[30CB638E]

Hello!

I'm sorry, I couldn't post because I was on holiday.

I've configured the Spark and Sodira and now it works perfectly ;)

[30CB638E]

Hi!

Does anybody knows how to make a DRM transmitter ?

[maxpower]

Hi!

Do you have some experience with HF and pcb-layouting? Its not too difficult to build a small drm tx.

Where do you need it for? Inside your Home use or a real (Ham-)TX?

Simplest way should be a direct mixer (ne612 for example) and a crystal generating drm-hf direct from the soundcard output. But you'll have a image that you will produce also.

Better way would be a I/Q Mixer, but you ll have to generate a good I/Q signal to minimize Images.

Feel free to contact me via PM.

Stephan


Stephan

[30CB638E]

Have you received my PM? ;)

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

beim Einsatz von SPARK, das ich jetzt auch für die Generierung von DRM+ einsetzen möchte, irritiert mich eine Eigenschaft von SPARK, die ich noch nicht voll steuern kann:

Übernimmt man ein dekodiertes Signal einer Station, so kann das bei Benutzung von SoDiRa auch problemlos als WAV-File generiert werden.

Bei 2 vorhandenen Soundkarten auf meinem Rechner besteht aber die Eigenschaft, daß beim Versuch, Audiodateien in kleine Testfiles abzuspeichern, daß für den Eingang der Output einer anderen Soundkarte benutzt wird. Ergebnis ist, daß die Files leer sind bzw. nur Rauschgeräusche aufweisen.

SPARK selbst hat keine Steuerung bzw. Einstellmöglichkeit für die Audioströme, gibt es ein alternatives Verfahren?

Ich grüße

Wolfgang Hartmann

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

in the meantime, there is the opportunity, to generate DRM+ or DRME signals into output to soundcard or wav-file.

As far as I know, there is no possibility to decode DRM+ by DREAM. But there is an opportunity to decode these streams by a special version of SoDiRa.

One has to write to Bernd Reiser, autor of SoDiRa to get an experimental first decoding special version of the programm.

With regards

Wolfgang Hartmann

[gccradioscience]

I have tried Spark before and its really good to use for computer to an mp3 player use. I am experimenting with the Spark software on a part 15 AM transmitter, but I might just build another kit. I think this is great, but I can only do mono audio, is it true that if you get a licensed version you can do stereo casting? The reception from another radio is not here yet, I have to get a C Crane SW with a DRM 455 kHz to 12 kHz down converter to connect to the computer in the next room to test it out more.

[gccradioscience]

Hello, I have the free version of the software, it works good, but I am having some issues with it. When I turn the encoder on and set it to line out, the 12 kHz digital noise appears along in the headphones. How do i seperate the DRM digital signal from the monitoring analog signal? Do I need a second sound card? Is there a way to monitor the DRM transmission when it's live? I am very confused about this software. Do I need a second computer just for DRM encoding?

[dadalbinder]

Hello,

Spark does not produce an audio-signal in its output, maybee in a second soundcard, or a wave-file. It is producing a modulated signal, which You could give to some software to demodulate it. I am using SoDiRa-Software by Bernd Reiser. In this program You are able to PLAY this constructed file by SPARK and hear the result.

This way gives a first impression, what and how SPARK is working quite nice. In further special versions of SPARK there should be possibilities to "modulate" AM, SSB, FM and DRM A, B, C, D and even E. As far as I see, there is no possibility to generate a DRM E or + signal at the moment.

You could use a generated wav-file (modulated as I mentioned it) to give this signal to a mixer and transmit it. One could select a wide range of frequencies to do so.

Second soundcard: I personally use two soundcards and it is easy to switch to the output "soundcard". Within Spark, You have one soundcard, from which one takes the input signal for Spark and the second soundcard, to give this signal to a mixer or SoDiRa or other software. .. and transmit it.

You are able to construct a second audio-chanel even more by using the software VAC, virtual audio cable, and integrate it in Your computer. (But an audio-channel is not necessarily an audible audio-signal!!)

But: For first experiments, one could SPARK in another way: Take an input by a wav-file for the program and give it into the output of Your soundcard for mixing. In this possible solution, You are not able to decode the result in Your computer but at a nearby receiver, which is able to receive the mixed signal. You find a circuit on the page: www.sat-schneider.de even in english language. Such mixers are very practical.

A second soundcard could be usefull for specialized decoding programms as cw-decoders or for more specialised modulations. Take the output of the first card for audio-purpose, the next, You could give to a spezialised decoding programm. It es even possible with VAC.

A big bunch of possibilities but one has to try and manage all these possiblities. If You are able to manage all these procedures, You will be grown as a deep specialist in SDR, software defined radios. It is a nice experience.

You could try to take a 455 kHz IF from a receiver, give it to a mixer-circuit and produce a transmitted signal, You are able to receive by a stand-by receiver.


Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[gccradioscience]

Hello,

Spark does not produce an audio-signal in its output, maybee in a second soundcard, or a wave-file. It is producing a modulated signal, which You could give to some software to demodulate it. I am using SoDiRa-Software by Bernd Reiser. In this program You are able to PLAY this constructed file by SPARK and hear the result.

This way gives a first impression, what and how SPARK is working quite nice. In further special versions of SPARK there should be possibilities to "modulate" AM, SSB, FM and DRM A, B, C, D and even E. As far as I see, there is no possibility to generate a DRM E or + signal at the moment.

You could use a generated wav-file (modulated as I mentioned it) to give this signal to a mixer and transmit it. One could select a wide range of frequencies to do so.

Second soundcard: I personally use two soundcards and it is easy to switch to the output "soundcard". Within Spark, You have one soundcard, from which one takes the input signal for Spark and the second soundcard, to give this signal to a mixer or SoDiRa or other software. .. and transmit it.

You are able to construct a second audio-chanel even more by using the software VAC, virtual audio cable, and integrate it in Your computer. (But an audio-channel is not necessarily an audible audio-signal!!)

But: For first experiments, one could SPARK in another way: Take an input by a wav-file for the program and give it into the output of Your soundcard for mixing. In this possible solution, You are not able to decode the result in Your computer but at a nearby receiver, which is able to receive the mixed signal. You find a circuit on the page: www.sat-schneider.de even in english language. Such mixers are very practical.

A second soundcard could be usefull for specialized decoding programms as cw-decoders or for more specialised modulations. Take the output of the first card for audio-purpose, the next, You could give to a spezialised decoding programm. It es even possible with VAC.

A big bunch of possibilities but one has to try and manage all these possiblities. If You are able to manage all these procedures, You will be grown as a deep specialist in SDR, software defined radios. It is a nice experience.

You could try to take a 455 kHz IF from a receiver, give it to a mixer-circuit and produce a transmitted signal, You are able to receive by a stand-by receiver.


Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg


I will try to study this, and look into the virtual audio cable software. I see why the free version is in mono, makes since, cause it would be far complicated to do a 2 channel stereo signal along with the noise. I will just study it more after I get a receiver.

Honestly, I have not got a receiver, yet, but I will let everyone know when I will get the receiver with the IF output. I am going to try to get the second receiver that already has a IF output jack for FM modifed and get the other side called AM modifed for DRM reception. I have to poke around the receiver for a good clear signal. Like I said I need a receiver to hear the other side of things cause my setup if deaf right now and I only have a Dream receiver not the actually AM receiver with DRM demodulation.

[dadalbinder]

Hello,

this version of SPARK is the published version for general use.

It is able to modulate DRM modi A, B, C, D.

Have a look into the appendix to see a screen of the program with remarks from the author, Michael Feilen.

There is the opportunity to go to mode E or DRM+. On my machine it does not work because of the restricted multiplex channel.

There are further versions of the program, which are not broadly published. They are able to modulate AM, SSB=LSB, USB, FMbroad with RDS, DRM A, B, C, D, E and in DRM-mode to generate some text, pictures as in a normal DRM-transmission. In the mode AM one is able to set AMSS-mode with text messages.

In all these cases You get a modulated wav-file or soundcard-output.

To decode, You need DREAM or SODIRA. FM-broad with RDS (radio data system) its only decoded by SoDiRa.

I will try to give some more informations later.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hello,

two screens while modulating.

You find one screen for DRM B and one for DRM E

Both with adapted values and parameters.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hello,

two additional screens of the mentioned modes.

You are able to see fixed paramters in the screens

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hello,

2 screens schowing SoDiRa demodulating wav-file (AM).

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hello,

in some versions of SPARK one is able to choose the output format.

- Complex I/Q
- REAL (i-only)
- Envelope & Phase (E & P)

Have a look in the Appendix




Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[zfyoung]

Hello,everyone:

I am an enthusiast of DRM and I'm doing some experiments with DRM reception algorithm. I want to know if the SPARK software is freely available to the general public or just for some 'academic elite'? I've requested the download from its website. But so far, not a word of response. Can anyone give me a clue? Thanks in advance!

zfyoung

[simone]

Hi zfyoung,

basically SPARK is still available, the free version to everyone if you fill in the form on their website, I met the developer again recently and he still reads the emails, maybe there is a problem due to holidays at German Universities or your message got lost, so try again.

Simone

[zfyoung]

.....At last, my request has been answered, many thanks Simone! It seems it is indeed due to time lag between two different time zones. In the age of electronic media, my patience is a little too thin.(blush)

zfyoung

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

I am just experimenting with little mixers to generate a signal suitable for a standalone receiver in connection with SPARK wav-files or direct output via soundcard.

There are 3 output modes:

- Complex I/Q
- REAL (i-only)
- Envelope & Phase (E & P)

You have to choose one of these modes for a basis of mixing with a signal of a mixer unit.
.
For I/Q You need an I/Q-mixer. This is a very special circuit, You could find an example at the internet-site of University of Kaiserslautern (have a view on the internet-page of Bernd Feilen). Do not try this version first.

At the moment I am working with REAL-mode and a just normal mixer controlled by a xtal. In this version You have to look for some hints.

You have to fix the IF-frequency of the modulated signal within SPARK. If You choose a little IF, You get probably some trouble because the IF is too low and near to the frequency of Your oscillator. Because of this problem choose a higher IF within SPARK.

The standalone receiver has to have a relativly sharp filter(s), to be able to receiver without the influence of the oscillating circuit in Your easy-built mixer.

With an xtal of 10000 kHz there are two signals at

10000 kHz + IF-frequency and

10000 kHz – IF-frequency

Till now I experimented with a Morphy-Richards, Tecsun PL-310 and DRT1 receiver by Sat-Schneider. The last one gives a nice spectrum of signals around the received frequency in a decoding programm dependend from the chosen mode of the soundcard and the sample rate.

Just now, I am waiting for a special IC, which could be able to make the first steps in the FM-area. ... and I am experimenting further.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

there is a new and not experimental version of SoDiRa software version 0.83.

It is able to demodulate in mode DRM+ a file, which has been modulated by SPARK Transmitter.

I have chosen Complex I/Q, Samplerate 192 kHz, intermediate frequency 1.00 Hz.

In the appendix there are two screens of the programm working with a modulated file.



Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hello,

some questions came.

Spark has some versions and is spread in such different versions.

Generally it is able to modulate DRM30 (A, B, C, D), DRM+ (E), AM incl. LSB, USB, FM with RDS.

Some notes in the appendix.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hello,

I got an information from Michael Feilen that a new codec for DRM+ is existing. It is a license-free version and at the moment only working with DRM+ and till now not working with DRM A, B, C, D.

The AAC+ codec has a very high price and now we have an information for a new free codec CELT.

More information one could perhaps get by the homepage of SPARK by Michael Feilen, the author of Spark.

Wolfgang Hartmann, NÜrnberg

[PP5AZF-Ataliba]

I am having trouble generating DRM + in a WAV file in SPARK (V 1.7.1) that decodes the SODIRA (0.83 V).
This file is saved to the site of SODIRA (Spark + DRM Demonstration - http://www.dsp4swls.de/sodira/wave/spark_drm_e%20iq_0_mode.wav) decoding, but what I record does not decode.: Confused:
My sound card is Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS - Model SB 0350, CA0102-ICT chipset.
I need help recording WAV files and make transfer from one computer to another.
Please, send email: ataliba@intercorp.com.br

*********************************
Eu não estou conseguindo gerar DRM+ em um arquivo WAV no SPARk (V 1.7.1) que decodifique no SODIRA (V 0.83).
Este arquivo gravado que está no site do SODIRA (Spark DRM+ Demonstration - http://www.dsp4swls.de/sodira/wave/spark_drm_e%20iq_0_mode.wav) está decodificando, mas o que eu gravo não decodifica.:confused:
Minha placa de som é Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS - Modelo SB 0350, Chipset CA0102-ICT.
Preciso de ajuda para gravar arquivos WAV e fazer transmissão de um computador para outro.
Por favor, mande email: ataliba@intercorp.com.br

Hello,

two screens while modulating.

You find one screen for DRM B and one for DRM E

Both with adapted values and parameters.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hello,

I am not shure, wether the translation is quite right.

A lot of things/questions to experiment:

O Are You able to decode the example file from Bernd Reiser from the website of SoDiRa within version 0.83 (DRM+ file) ?

O If it is decoding, the problem may be caused by the modulation process of Spark, parameters, IF and others. Which parameters are You using?

O Try to modulate DRM A or B with Spark and test it by decoding on Your system

O Try to modulate in AM-mode (SSB, LSB too). Does it work on SoDiRa?

O Did You test the ability of the soundcard, wether it is able to work for I/Q (Circuit by Burkhard Kainka)?

This as a first message.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hello,

the second note:

Please send a screen-dump of SoDiRa while playing DRM+ file with SoDiRa and the screen of Dialog Window in DRM-mode.

Maybee it could help, to fix a problem.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hello,

the code of CELT is extremly fresh generated at end of May 2010 by Michael Feilen.

If You want some more information and a pdf-File of the text, You should ask for at the webpage of DRM-Transmitter.

I await some further implementation into SoDiRa.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[maxpower]

Hello Ataliba!

From what I understand, you tried the Wav File for Sodira which worked, but your own files doen't?!

I played a little bit with spark and I think I've a similar problem, too. Standard DRM 30 Modes workes fine (within the Computer (spark-soundcard-sodira) and with "real world" signals made by an I/Q upmixing board that I build (spark - soundcard - I/Q mixer - Himalaya 2010).

The DRM+ file that Bernd Reiser provides on his homepage works well when played and decoded in sodira. (Audio sounds very nice! ::cool: )

But when generating a DRM+ signal with spark I can't decode it with sodira. I tried with 0 kHz intermediate frequency and with about 48 khz intermediate frequency. think at least the last config should work. :confused:

The soundcard I use is a Via HD onBoard sound. This Chip works quite good as I/Q ADC & DAC. It hasn't got the best dynamic range or SNR (about 90 dB), but antialisaing filters are quite good and the balance between the two channels as well. And - of course, it provides the 192 kHz samplingrate to generate a good 100 kHz wide DRM+ signal.

So I don't know where the problem might be? sodira, spark or something else? As far as I know Bernd Reiser has a different spark version (I've got Version E1.7.1). Maybe thats the difference? Or maybe theres another trick in the config to do to get it up to work?!

I'll try to record some files myself (first with DRM 30), too and give report to you.

73, Stephan

[dadalbinder]

Hello,

there are two different ways, SoDiRa works with DRM+ files. I modulated a lot of DRM+ files with different versions of Spark.

The main difference between the files lies in the behaviour of SoDiRa.

1. Using an example file of Bernd Reiser from his homepage.

It is working quite normal and one has mainly no problems with it. As first file, one should use this file.

2. Using a file produced by several Spark versions.

There is a main difference. In the submenu: WAV File are in this case 4 buttons active. You have PLAY, STOP, RECORD as with the file of Bernd Reiser AND the button at the right side. Here You have to switch the modes till You clearly see, that this is accepted.

I will try to write a little text with different screens to show the selection and working of those files, which were directly generated by several SPARK versions.

The best result one gets, if SoDiRa has been started just befor decoding.

In the next day, I will try to write a text showing the situations with SPARK generated DRM+ files.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hello,

I wrote a little text in german language for SoDiRa thread.

I am putting this article in the appendix.

Could be a little help.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dsp4swls]

i did not have Spark on my side to post the number. But i will give you some hints:

what need you: fast PC, Spark with DRM+, Sodira 0.083, normal Soundcard (192 kHz soundcard is not needed for wave playing direct from sodira)

Spark:
-Transmitter DRM settings Mode E
-Content Manager choose any bittrate
-Content Manager audio source MP3 or anything and choose MP3 file
-Transmitter OFDM Postprocessing AGC off FIR off (more performance)
-Transmitter PAPR none
-Transmitter Modulation IF = 0
-Transmitter output devices wavefile
-Transmitter output devices wave file complex i/q, 192000, 16 bits

start transmission until about 30 mbyte file size
start sodira click play, choose file and click right button until IQ r/l seen
click dialog window click drm+ button (sometimes twice) and now you should hear somthing

if its working you can experimental playing with spark parameters

plase note direct decoding of DRM+ via soundcard input is not 100% tested, the syncronisation is internaly switched off and will be enabled soon but it should work for some seconds

take also a short look into the handbook within the article wave file plaing and recording (in german only)

[simone]

Hi Ataliba,

I also tried last night to record a DRM+ signal with Spark and play it with SoDiRa, I did not notice any problems. This was on a laptop with the built it standard Realtek HD audio, as Bernd mentioned you do not need a special soundcard for this.
If you still have problems please send some screenshots.

Simone

[simone]

Hello,

I got an information from Michael Feilen that a new codec for DRM+ is existing. It is a license-free version and at the moment only working with DRM+ and till now not working with DRM A, B, C, D.

The AAC+ codec has a very high price and now we have an information for a new free codec CELT.

More information one could perhaps get by the homepage of SPARK by Michael Feilen, the author of Spark.

Wolfgang Hartmann, NÜrnberg

I think we need to be more careful here as the information from Wolfgang is not quite correct, the CELT codec has been developed by the xiph open source community and actually is still under development since 2008. It is not suitable to be used at the low bitrates that we have on DRM (30). For DRM+ there is a proposal from Michael to use it for DRM+ but this is not standardised yet. As there are no royalty payments for CELT it is great for development projects and experimenting with DRM+ for anyone who is interested. There were similar projects from CRC using CELT in their DAB tools.

Simone

[maxpower]

Hello Simone, Bernd and Wolfgang!

Thanks for your tipps. Is it maybe the version of spark that makes the difference?! I use Vers. E1.7.1.. There seem to be differences in which parameters can be changed?!

I made some additional experiments last night. The setup was like you can see in the screenshot attached. I recorded a wav and tried to decode which didn't worked and also the "live" decoding from spark-soundcard-sodira.

I could get some very short moments when sodira could achieve decoding in both variants. But some 10th of a second later it was gone again. Only the "sync" stayed. I have put up the with spark generated file on my server: http://www.pappradio.de/outpute3.wav

Thanks for helping!

73, Stephan

[dadalbinder]

Hallo,

I am not able to hear anything at all. As far as I could say, the relative signal strength ist not so high as with the files, I could generate.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hello,

I just generated a file.

Two screens show the situation.

One could see the relative signal strength in comparison to Stephans file.

We need definitily a standard version of Spark. The versions 2.3.0 and 2.5.0 have the opportunity to save parameters and load them. This is a good opportunity, to have Your parameter collection for alle different modes as DRM A, B, C, D, AM (LSB, USB), FM.

In the last days, I had a phone with Michael Feilen. There could be the possibility to generate a common version for all users. We have to wait, till he has time, to do such a "common version". This would allow us, to send fixed paramter values to and from us each other.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hello,

in the appendix the screen of outpute3.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hello,

in the appendix the screen of the file to compare with my screens.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[PP5AZF-Ataliba]

He missed open activate:
1. DIALOG WINDON
2. DRM + (to increase bandwidth to 96 kHz).

Faltou abrir ativar:
1. DIALOG WINDON
2. DRM+ (para aumentar a largura de banda para 96 khz).


Hello,

in the appendix the screen of outpute3.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[PP5AZF-Ataliba]

Someone could provide one of the SPARK versions 2.3.0 or 2.5.0? I would like to try recording a WAV file.

Alguém poderia fornecer uma das versões SPARK 2.3.0 ou 2.5.0? Eu gostaria de testar a gravação de um arquivo WAV.

Hello,

I just generated a file.

Two screens show the situation.

One could see the relative signal strength in comparison to Stephans file.

We need definitily a standard version of Spark. The versions 2.3.0 and 2.5.0 have the opportunity to save parameters and load them. This is a good opportunity, to have Your parameter collection for alle different modes as DRM A, B, C, D, AM (LSB, USB), FM.

In the last days, I had a phone with Michael Feilen. There could be the possibility to generate a common version for all users. We have to wait, till he has time, to do such a "common version". This would allow us, to send fixed paramter values to and from us each other.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[PP5AZF-Ataliba]

I tried to run the file "outpute3.wav" SODIRA 0083 and not decoded audio. This happens with my recordings with SPARK version 1.7.1. Probably this version of SPARK is that it allows you to make a WAV file corrreto.

Tentei executar o arquivo "outpute3.wav" e o SODIRA 0.083 não decodificou o áudio. Isso acontece com minhas gravações com SPARK versão 1.7.1. Provavelmente esta versão do SPARK é que não permite fazer um arquivo WAV corrreto.

Hello Simone, Bernd and Wolfgang!

Thanks for your tipps. Is it maybe the version of spark that makes the difference?! I use Vers. E1.7.1.. There seem to be differences in which parameters can be changed?!

I made some additional experiments last night. The setup was like you can see in the screenshot attached. I recorded a wav and tried to decode which didn't worked and also the "live" decoding from spark-soundcard-sodira.

I could get some very short moments when sodira could achieve decoding in both variants. But some 10th of a second later it was gone again. Only the "sync" stayed. I have put up the with spark generated file on my server: http://www.pappradio.de/outpute3.wav

Thanks for helping!

73, Stephan

[dsp4swls]

Hello

i have observed the output3 bahavior in my debbugging environment and have recognised that the signal is not standard conformed encoded, the synchonisation signals are not placed correctly, this seems to be the same with my first DRM+ steps, i had also this version and i have recognized this problem too, please use a newer version of spark

[simone]

Hi Ataliba,

please got to www.drm-sender.de, use the contact form there and ask for Spark version 1.9.1 or later.

Simone

[PP5AZF-Ataliba]

Ok! Tank you :D

Hi Ataliba,

please got to www.drm-sender.de, use the contact form there and ask for Spark version 1.9.1 or later.

Simone

[maxpower]

Hello to all of you!

I've written to Michael Feilen. So lets wait and see. :)

In the meantime I played a little bit with DRM 30 on Spark modulation with my small home brewed I/Q Mixer which is basically turned arround Pappradio. So it could be called "Pappexciter" ;)

The setup has been like following:

TX Part:

Mini ITX system - Windows XP - Spark 1.7.1 / Pappexciter tuning Software - HD Sound - "Pappexciter" (about 25 - 50 mW DRM Power) - 30 cm tuned Loop

then 1.5m "Air Interface" ;)

RX Part:

30 cm Broadband Loop - Pappradio 2 (USB) - Dream

I could achive 46 - 50 dB SNR, depending on frequency. Some of the difference might be because of not perfekt Mixer and PLL, but I think most could be because of the quality of the "transmitting loop" which could better be tuned at lower frequencies.

But I'm heavyly surprised that I could achieve SNRs in the 45 - 50 dB range with "consumer PC hardware", a Windows Software Modulator and a simple I/Q Upmixer. This is really nice! :cool:

73, Stephan

[maxpower]

Here are the next two screenshots

[maxpower]

A little bit more testing with Spark 1.7.1.:

Changing Transition bandwidth from 500 to 5000 (maximum) gives a much better decoding SNR from Spark direct fed into dream (from about 55 dB (@500) to 63.5 dB (@5000)) and a slightly higher TX to RX real HF signal SNR over the air to 52.6 dB maximum.

So upconversion losses from a virtual 12 kHz signal to a real 2.5 MHz signal are in the region of 12 dB in this case.

But look at the spectrum in the screenshot. That doens't look very clean... :eek:



73, Stephan

[PP5AZF-Ataliba]

I did some testing (5 minutes each configuration) with software SPARK 1.7.1 and DREAM 1.10.6 internally on a single computer (on mixer) and resulted in the following observations:

Fiz alguns testes (5 minutos cada configuração) com software SPARK 1.7.1 e DREAM 1.10.6, internamente em um único computador (mixer ligado) e resultaram nas seguintes observações:

Transition Bandwidth 100 - 5000 Hz (FIR)
T.B. - SNR
100 - 54,8 dB
500 - 54,3 dB
1000 - 57,8 dB
2000 - 59,1 dB
3500 - 59,7 dB
5000 - 59,7 dB

Conclusion: The biggest difference occurred when I changed from 500 Hz (padrão SPARK) to 3500 Hz.

Conclusão: a maior diferença ocorreu quando mudei de 500 Hz (default SPARK) para 3500 Hz

A little bit more testing with Spark 1.7.1.:

Changing Transition bandwidth from 500 to 5000 (maximum) gives a much better decoding SNR from Spark direct fed into dream (from about 55 dB (@500) to 63.5 dB (@5000)) and a slightly higher TX to RX real HF signal SNR over the air to 52.6 dB maximum.

So upconversion losses from a virtual 12 kHz signal to a real 2.5 MHz signal are in the region of 12 dB in this case.

But look at the spectrum in the screenshot. That doens't look very clean... :eek:



73, Stephan

[PP5AZF-Ataliba]

Interesting! made a change bitrate DRM + original file (192 kHz) to 96 kHz and continued with decoding SODIRA 0083.

Interessante! fiz uma mudança de bitrate do arquivo DRM+ original (192 khz) para 96 khz e continuou decodificando com SODIRA 0.083.

http://www.dsp4swls.de/sodira/wave/spark_drm_e%20iq_0_mode.wav

Resample: Sony Sound Forge

I am having trouble generating DRM + in a WAV file in SPARK (V 1.7.1) that decodes the SODIRA (0.83 V).
This file is saved to the site of SODIRA (Spark + DRM Demonstration - http://www.dsp4swls.de/sodira/wave/spark_drm_e%20iq_0_mode.wav) decoding, but what I record does not decode.: Confused:
My sound card is Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS - Model SB 0350, CA0102-ICT chipset.
I need help recording WAV files and make transfer from one computer to another.
Please, send email: ataliba@intercorp.com.br

*********************************
Eu não estou conseguindo gerar DRM+ em um arquivo WAV no SPARk (V 1.7.1) que decodifique no SODIRA (V 0.83).
Este arquivo gravado que está no site do SODIRA (Spark DRM+ Demonstration - http://www.dsp4swls.de/sodira/wave/spark_drm_e%20iq_0_mode.wav) está decodificando, mas o que eu gravo não decodifica.:confused:
Minha placa de som é Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS - Modelo SB 0350, Chipset CA0102-ICT.
Preciso de ajuda para gravar arquivos WAV e fazer transmissão de um computador para outro.
Por favor, mande email: ataliba@intercorp.com.br

[maxpower]

Ok, now it's time to find out where the 12 dB went, that I lost in the tests yesterday.

I made some aditional tests, PC internal (Spark to windows mixer to dream), PC to PC (connected via PC 1 line out - cable - line in 2nd PC), same with a netbook Acer Aspire One 531.

Comparing this with the results from yesterday evening like follows:

<table valign="top" width="600" align="center" border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td width="42%"> </td><td width="30%">SNR @ Level -60 dB
</td><td width="28%">SNR @ Level -40 dB
</td></tr><tr><td rowspan="2">PC intern

Spark-Windows Mixer-Dream </td><td class="daten" id="daten">59.2dB (500 Hz)</td><td class="daten" id="daten">59.2dB (500 Hz)</td></tr><tr id="daten"><td>71.5dB (5000 Hz)</td><td>71.5dB (5000 Hz)</td></tr><tr><td rowspan="2">PC to PC

Spark - IDT HD Sound - Line Cable - Via HD Sound - Dream</td><td class="daten" id="daten">51.7dB (500 Hz)</td><td class="daten" id="daten">52.4dB (500 Hz)</td></tr><tr id="daten"><td>54.dB0 (5000 Hz)</td><td>55.0dB (5000 Hz)</td></tr><tr><td rowspan="2">PC to Netbook

Spark - IDT HD Sound - Line Cable - Realtek HD Sound - Dream</td><td class="daten" id="daten">50.0dB (500 Hz)</td><td class="daten" id="daten">52.1dB (500 Hz)</td></tr><tr id="daten"><td>51.8dB (5000 Hz)</td><td>54.6dB (5000 Hz)</td></tr><tr><td rowspan="2">real HF: "Pappexciter"

Spark - IDT HD Sound - Pappexciter - tuned Loop - Air - broadband Loop - Pappradio 2 - Via HD Sound - Dream
</td><td class="daten" id="daten">50.1dB (500 Hz)</td><td class="daten" id="daten">tbd</td></tr><tr id="daten"><td>52.6 dB(5000 Hz)</td><td>tbd</td></tr></tbody></table>


Ok, so what do the results tell?

The SNR results from soundcard to soundcard are some dB lower than the PC internal tests (for example 59.2 dB @ 500 Hz compare to 51.7 @ 500 Hz).

The losses are higher if TB is set to higher values ( 71.5 / 54 dB) and in the range between 9 (@500Hz) to 20 dB (@5000Hz).

The results of the real AD/DA conversion are getting better a little bit by rising the power levels from -60 dB maximum signal to -40 dB maximum signal. But the improvement is not very high with about 3 dB max.

It seems that particulary the maximum SNR at the change from 500 Hz to 5 kHz TB can't be comprehended by the Codecs. (For this it's important to say that I used simple on Board HD Audio Codecs for this test. I'll make some tests with higher quality ADC/DAC's soon. So there may be some room for improvement.)

The loss of SNR at the conversion from Baseband to HF and backwards is not that high as I thought. With standard settings I've lost about 2 dB or so @ 2.5 MHz :cool:

These losses can't be reclined by reducing the space between TX and RX Antenna. Doing this rised the signallevel at RX to a certain point (SNR doesn't get better) and from then on showing more and more intermodulation (SNR wents down the hill).

So the 2 dB seem to be conversion losses of the Pappexciter/Pappradio Hardware ( but I don't know how much gets on whom of the two) and do not limited by the (low) output power of the "exciter".

I'm quite satisfied with the Pappradio hardware and the whole system with Spark as modulator so far. :)

I wonder to which SNR levels professional Exciters and Receivers can get?!

73, Stephan

(Does anybody know how to remove the empty space on top of the table? I try to edit this message to get it fitting better...)

edit: made the post look nicer ;) Simone

[maxpower]

Hmm, just saw that my older version of DRMlogplot doesn't plot SNRs higher than 40 dB?! So I downloaded an update (thanks Digger!) and here's the plot for my last test with SNR > 52 dB.

73, Stephan


PS: Thanks for editing the empty space in my posting, Simone! :) How did you do that?

[dadalbinder]

Hello,

since today there is a new test-version of Michael Feilen of SPARK. It is named 2.5.0.

It has a lot of features, which are suitable to exchange the parameters for modulation for different modes.

I made a fist test file and it did work instantly with my parameters in DRM+ mode.

The version is limited to a running time of 30 minutes. Enough, to produce WAV-files of some hundred mega.

Thank You for this common version. Now all experimenters are able, to work on the same program and discuss fixed paramteres.

Best regards to Michael Feilen and the experimentators.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hello,

there is no possibilty to send paramter-files of SPARK by the appendix of the forum.

The only way at the moment seems to be, to send them by EMail.

Wolfgang Hartmann, NÜrnberg

[simone]

Hello,

there is no possibilty to send paramter-files of SPARK by the appendix of the forum.

The only way at the moment seems to be, to send them by EMail.

Wolfgang Hartmann, NÜrnberg

Hi Wolfgang,

you can attach the config file as a .zip or rename it as .txt, no problem!

Simone

[PP5AZF-Ataliba]

Why should you see a message "in the FFT library found" when installing 2.5.0 SPARK?

Qual o motivo para aparecer uma mensagem "no FFT library found" durante a instalação do SPARk 2.5.0?

Hello,

since today there is a new test-version of Michael Feilen of SPARK. It is named 2.5.0.

It has a lot of features, which are suitable to exchange the parameters for modulation for different modes.

I made a fist test file and it did work instantly with my parameters in DRM+ mode.

The version is limited to a running time of 30 minutes. Enough, to produce WAV-files of some hundred mega.

Thank You for this common version. Now all experimenters are able, to work on the same program and discuss fixed paramteres.

Best regards to Michael Feilen and the experimentators.

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[dadalbinder]

Hi Ataliba

I think the translation of Your original text seems for me wrongly translated, if I read Your original text.

You see: "no FFT library found" and not the controversial info as in english language.

I am able to understand a little bit italian language but not portugese or spanish language.

If it is as You wrote in Your original message, You should ask Michael Feilen at his homepage for help

Sorry

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg

[maxpower]

Hello Ataliba!

I didn't get the spark version 2.5. until now. :-( But normally there is a fft.dll inside the spark directory folder. Is it missing in your installation?

73, Stephan

[simone]

... But normally there is a fft.dll inside the spark directory folder. Is it missing in your installation?

73, Stephan

Hi Ataliba,
Spark is using the FFT library called Kiss FFT, the package contains the required dll "kissfft.dll", did you already check you have the correct Java version installed?
Simone

[maxpower]

FFT library called Kiss FFT, the package contains the required dll "kissfft.dll"

So it seems that this has been changed from < 1.7 to the newer versions?! :)

I've looked into all versions that I have (1.3, 1.70, 1.71) and they all used a fft library fft.dll and no kissfft.dll on my - with java installed - systems?!

:confused:

Stephan

[PP5AZF-Ataliba]

Microsoft Windows XP
Professional
Version 2002
Service Pack 3
JAVA version 6 update 20 (build 1.6.0_20-b02

Teste sua versão JAVA VIRTUAL MACHINE:
http://java.com/pt_BR/download/help/testvm.xml


Hi Ataliba,
Spark is using the FFT library called Kiss FFT, the package contains the required dll "kissfft.dll", did you already check you have the correct Java version installed?
Simone

[simone]

Hi Ataliba,

try and delete fft.dll, you do not need it there.

Simone

[dadalbinder]

Hello,

thanks to Michael Feilen we have now a common and nice version 2.5.0.

New Tops:

1. Ideal and experienced parameters for all modes?

2. Hardware solutions to build an experimental mixer?

Would it be meaningful to extense the discussion?

Wolfgang Hartmann, Nürnberg